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[Music]

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and good evening from Philadelphia Frank

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here with a late-night edition of UFO

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news network Sunday we got in just under

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the wire two minutes before midnight

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tonight but we're all ready to go we've

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got a great decimal guest with us

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tonight making his second appearance and

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he has had a very interesting year so

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let me get to my co-host and bring her

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on a chant Hannah a chant has everything

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going tonight and wants to bring on our

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special guests it's going really well

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thank you we have a wonderful guest

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tonight his name is Professor Kevin

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Knuth he's an associate professor in the

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Department of Physics at the University

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of Albany and as the editor in chief of

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the journal entropy mdpi he is a former

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NASA research scientist having worked

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for four years at NASA Ames Research

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Center in the intelligent systems

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division designing artificial

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intelligence algorithms for

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Astrophysical data analysis he has over

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20 years of experience in applying

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Bayesian and maximum entropy entropy

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methods to the design of the machine

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learning algorithms for data analysis

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applied to physical sciences his current

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research interests include the

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foundation of physics quantum

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information inferencing inquiry

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autonomous robotics and the search for

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and characterization of extrasolar

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planets he has published over 90

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peer-reviewed publications and has been

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invited to give over 80 presentation in

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14 different countries thank you for

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being on the show with us tonight

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Kevin you'll need to correct me on

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something here I had a little trouble

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saying a word I think you heard me when

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I tried I struggled a little bit with in

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applying BA y es I am what is that it

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comes from Bayes theorem from Thomas

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Bayes and so it's a theorem in

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probability theory fantastic thank you

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for clearing that up and I understand

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that you've been involved in science of

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probably for most of your life can you

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please tell

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why did you decide to go ahead and brace

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the world of science what was the

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impetus for you to have the desire to

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get involved in this topic came from my

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parents my parents both nurtured my

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interests in science my father

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especially introduced me to the theory

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of relativity when I was rather young

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maybe fifth grade or so and he had given

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me a popular book written by Einstein

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damn to read and I just devoured that

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book and really was very interested in

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that so that's that's came from I also

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was born at the right time I was born in

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1965 so I barely remember the moon

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landings in I was four years old and and

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I remember being at my grandparents

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house watching it on television and and

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everyone telling me this is so important

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this is the most important and it really

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and so I think you know there's there's

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several factors that that went into that

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but that was an important year and I

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also wanna I'm glad you brought that up

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because up you know that period time

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really allowed a lot of kids to look up

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to certain people the folks that were

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involved in that huge project a lot of

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them became heroes for the general

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public to look up to did you have any

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role models or anybody during that

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period of time that you felt were role

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models to you and also in addition to

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that did you find yourself looking up in

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the sky more role models that was that

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was really an enormous event and and

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also Albert Einstein I think those you

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know reading about relativity and I

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found it just fascinating but and I

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really one of the really strong memories

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of the moon landings was we were heading

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home after watching in on television and

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it was late in the evening and my father

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was carrying me I was only four years

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old and I remember we paused outside

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before getting in the car and he pointed

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up at the moon and he said there are

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wow that's amazing there are three

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people up there and and it's something

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that you know kids today haven't ever

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experienced and I think that's it's a

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shame

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hopefully we'll experience again soon

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with an upcoming Artemis missions yes

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and I'm glad you brought up the Artemis

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missions what do you feel will come of

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those missions and what do you think is

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inspiring them to be engaged in such a

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serious mission that means a lot yeah

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tell us a little bit about the mission -

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yes please

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the mission is it's going to be a

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stepping stone to Mars and some way and

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the ideas that we're going to go to the

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moon and not leave we're basically going

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to set up start setting up a base there

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which i think is should have been done

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decades ago the the Artemis mission I

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was glad to see that they're going to

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have at least one one female astronaut I

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I don't know why there can't be three

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female astronauts on the mission I think

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that would be setting since her fitting

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since Artemis was the sister of Apollo

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so it would be that would be interesting

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as well so but I think that's hopefully

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we'll we'll follow through and it'll be

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a great mission

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thank you for answering that do you feel

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like we have any more missions that we

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can endeavour to pursue aside from this

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mission right now well there's the

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missions to Europa to study the surface

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of Europa and get some idea of what the

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subsurface oceans are like the missions

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to Titan I think are very important to

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get some idea of what the environment on

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tightness is is like and whether a good

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harbor life could be very different life

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than what we were expecting earth but

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that would be very interesting yeah god

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I'm glad I'm glad you mentioned that

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professor because if we find that there

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is some life even at the the lowest

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level bacterial life or even like a

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crinoid or who knows maybe even some

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sort of a vertebrate sea life on those

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planet are on those

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moons that orbit them while in Selenas

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orbits Saturn or Jupiter orbits it also

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has subsurface water as well so these

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are all very exciting places and

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interesting places so if we find life

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and that we know there's life here so

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there's life on two bodies in the solar

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system that I mean that that pretty well

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bodes for life being pretty common out

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there I would think yeah I think so

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interesting thing you the contrast

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between Earth and Mars to me is striking

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Mars Mars Mars isn't horrible and and

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it's surprising that it's not covered

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with life maybe you can take the other

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perspective that it's surprising that

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earth is so covered with life and I when

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I'm teaching my strongly class I point

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this out you know and I often say you

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can't swing a dead cat without hitting

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something that's alive here on earth and

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that's really that's really amazing it's

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just carpeted with life and it's obvious

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that this is a living planet and you

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contrast this with the moon you know

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which where you're not so surprised

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there's no life there there's no

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atmosphere so it's an extreme

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temperature variation so that's not so

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surprising but it's surprising that Mars

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is as devoid of life as it is you would

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I would have thought that there would

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have been a better chance for life on

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Mars and we still might find life on

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Mars but it's not clearly not easy to

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find but life on Earth is very easy to

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find yeah I wanted to actually just jump

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right into a really serious topic and

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that I greatly admire you for tackling

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and that is I wanted to discuss your

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talk at max planck and go over the paper

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that you're writing

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do you mind bringing that up Kevin yeah

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I this this year I presented a paper at

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the maximum entropy and Bayesian methods

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and science and engineering conference

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it was held at the months of Planck

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Institute for plasma physics in Garching

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Germany which is just north of Enoch

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and that's a conference I've I've gone

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to since 1997 so I've attended you know

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for over 20 years and and I've been

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always been impressed by a number of

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people at that meeting and how they are

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always pushing the limits always trying

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to do something new and interesting and

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I try to do that every year myself most

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of my work there has been theoretical

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and this year I'd thought to do

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something related to estimating the

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flight characteristics of anomalous

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aerial vehicles and looking at um

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unidentified aerial vehicles UAVs and

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and estimating their accelerations more

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carefully by you know by looking a

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special a set of cases where you've had

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multiple witnesses with beautiful

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imaging modalities yes there's a handful

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of well documented encounters as it says

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in your paper including the 2004

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encounters with the Nimitz carrier group

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off the coast of California

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and I found that fascinating can you go

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into that topic yes 2004 encounters I

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think are have been pretty well

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publicized at this point they for a

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period of about two weeks the intimates

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carrier group had been detecting

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anomalous aerial vehicles in the area of

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Southern California they would basically

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appear on radar

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at about 80,000 feet and dropped to

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around 28,000 feet and tracked south

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from Ron Catalina Island South to near

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Guadalupe Island off the coast of Baja

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Mexico and in in at least one occasion

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they had redirected a training mission

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to intercept one of these vehicles that

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had that had basically moved into the

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training area so it posed a hazard and

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they so that was the flights led by

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commander flavor so they visually come

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you encountered these these craft and

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described them as large white Tic Tacs

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basically a white butane tank shaped

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object about the same size as a bean and

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when they come tried to engage with this

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object or get close to it the craft was

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described as as taking off like like as

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if it was shot from a rifle so it was it

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had very high acceleration accelerations

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that nobody nobody would survive the the

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craft was decided described as

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disappearing from view within a second

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or and and commander favor noted that

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even if you have a airplane going at

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Mach 3 it still takes 10 seconds or so

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before it gets out of view so so these

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this these objects accelerated much

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faster than their aircraft I'm glad

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you're bringing that up

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Kevin I'm sorry to interject we had a

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fascinating discussion with some

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gentlemen that were on the US estimates

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and also USS Princeton and I brought

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this up a few times with Frank and some

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podcast so I'm sure he already knows

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what I'm gonna say but that is I

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actually asked one of the gentlemen I

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think it might have been Frank will

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refresh my memory

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he was very poor he's yeah from the USS

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Princeton right and he I asked the group

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if they felt that the craft that they

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saw or the anomaly they saw may have

276
00:13:52,130 --> 00:13:49,770
been derived from été technology or was

277
00:13:57,950 --> 00:13:52,140
that one of ours so to speak meaning

278
00:13:59,960 --> 00:13:57,960
maybe a government owned vehicle and it

279
00:14:03,020 --> 00:13:59,970
was really surprising to hear Gary

280
00:14:07,850 --> 00:14:03,030
Voorhees say he felt it was one of ours

281
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:07,860
now you just mentioned speed if it was

282
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:09,690
one of ours let's just pretend for a

283
00:14:13,820 --> 00:14:12,090
second it was do we have anything that

284
00:14:16,130 --> 00:14:13,830
can go at that speed and like you said

285
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:16,140
no human could be in a craft like that

286
00:14:23,810 --> 00:14:22,320
at that speed right yes you could

287
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:23,820
potentially have

288
00:14:28,850 --> 00:14:25,770
a drone or something or an autonomous

289
00:14:34,250 --> 00:14:28,860
craft that moves at those speeds it gets

290
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:34,260
tricky the in that case there were

291
00:14:41,870 --> 00:14:39,810
basically there were several aspects of

292
00:14:44,510 --> 00:14:41,880
the encounters in the Nimitz case that I

293
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:44,520
analyzed one was from the radar data

294
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:48,930
from senior chief Kevin day also in the

295
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:53,850
USS Princeton where he was watching

296
00:15:01,880 --> 00:14:55,920
these things dropping from 28,000 feet

297
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:01,890
to sea level in in on the order of a

298
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:05,970
second or so and there it was yeah they

299
00:15:10,970 --> 00:15:07,770
were basically dropping from 28,000 feet

300
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:10,980
to sea level and 0.78 seconds and so if

301
00:15:14,210 --> 00:15:12,480
you estimate the accelerations in that

302
00:15:17,570 --> 00:15:14,220
case you're coming up with numbers on

303
00:15:21,020 --> 00:15:17,580
the order of about 5,600 G's of

304
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:21,030
acceleration which is really insane the

305
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:27,120
a person can withstand about 25 G's for

306
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:31,170
very short periods of time our fastest

307
00:15:38,570 --> 00:15:36,240
missiles that basically can handle on

308
00:15:42,830 --> 00:15:38,580
the other airframes can handle on the

309
00:15:44,630 --> 00:15:42,840
order of 50 G's and they can maneuver

310
00:15:46,670 --> 00:15:44,640
they can continue maneuvering at

311
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:46,680
accelerations of 35 G's but that's well

312
00:15:51,260 --> 00:15:49,650
below their 5,000 trees so even if these

313
00:15:54,050 --> 00:15:51,270
were drones it would really be

314
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:54,060
surprising I would I don't know I

315
00:15:58,700 --> 00:15:56,010
honestly don't know what to think about

316
00:16:00,530 --> 00:15:58,710
it because it's you can't rule out the

317
00:16:02,330 --> 00:16:00,540
possibility that these are from earth

318
00:16:05,630 --> 00:16:02,340
you can't rule out the possibility that

319
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:05,640
someone made them here on earth I would

320
00:16:11,450 --> 00:16:07,890
be surprised that they wouldn't be used

321
00:16:12,860 --> 00:16:11,460
more often if they were made here on

322
00:16:17,450 --> 00:16:12,870
earth because that's really an

323
00:16:19,130 --> 00:16:17,460
exceptional technology proving that some

324
00:16:22,820 --> 00:16:19,140
things extraterrestrial is incredibly

325
00:16:25,940 --> 00:16:22,830
difficult you a lot of people try to

326
00:16:28,190 --> 00:16:25,950
focus on isotope ratios and things like

327
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:28,200
this but you know you we can manipulate

328
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:30,450
isotope ratios so that's not that's not

329
00:16:33,890 --> 00:16:31,890
a hard thing to do we know how to do

330
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:33,900
that that's what we do and we when we

331
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:35,770
isolate uranium for

332
00:16:39,690 --> 00:16:38,050
you know for making nuclear weapons

333
00:16:41,370 --> 00:16:39,700
that's where you playing with isotope

334
00:16:42,030 --> 00:16:41,380
ratios it's a hard thing to do but it

335
00:16:44,370 --> 00:16:42,040
can be done

336
00:16:47,310 --> 00:16:44,380
so isotope ratios don't prove that

337
00:16:48,510 --> 00:16:47,320
something's extraterrestrial you've to

338
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:48,520
prove that something is extraterrestrial

339
00:16:55,590 --> 00:16:50,650
you'll probably have to drag an alien

340
00:16:57,510 --> 00:16:55,600
off of it convince anyone because

341
00:16:59,190 --> 00:16:57,520
otherwise you know you could you could

342
00:17:01,440 --> 00:16:59,200
get some really interesting tech that no

343
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:01,450
one's ever seen before but just because

344
00:17:04,650 --> 00:17:03,040
no one's seen it before doesn't mean

345
00:17:09,060 --> 00:17:04,660
that it wasn't made here on earth so

346
00:17:11,970 --> 00:17:09,070
it's it's a very difficult issue okay

347
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:11,980
wanted go ahead Frank yeah I just don't

348
00:17:15,810 --> 00:17:13,450
want to jump in that we were talking a

349
00:17:18,810 --> 00:17:15,820
little bit about the Nimitz case and you

350
00:17:21,390 --> 00:17:18,820
are involved with Kevin day on a you ap

351
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:21,400
pattern detection mission out near

352
00:17:25,199 --> 00:17:23,410
Catalina Island generally the

353
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:25,209
neighborhood that this case took place

354
00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:27,970
in and I was hoping you tell us a little

355
00:17:37,340 --> 00:17:30,310
bit about how you got involved in all

356
00:17:44,090 --> 00:17:41,190
really excited that Kevin day really

357
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:44,100
spearheaded this project and he's

358
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:47,770
extremely motivated and I really respect

359
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:51,970
him for that I get that you know he was

360
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:54,010
involved with these encounters and he

361
00:17:58,620 --> 00:17:55,810
wants to know what they are and I and I

362
00:18:02,580 --> 00:17:58,630
and I really really appreciate that and

363
00:18:04,940 --> 00:18:02,590
I'm really feel honored to be able to

364
00:18:10,770 --> 00:18:04,950
you know help with this and work on this

365
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:10,780
so the idea basically is to to go back

366
00:18:17,310 --> 00:18:14,530
to Catalina Island and south of Catalina

367
00:18:21,030 --> 00:18:17,320
Island with with a ship and and actually

368
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:21,040
look for these things we the idea was

369
00:18:31,290 --> 00:18:23,770
that they had detected them in November

370
00:18:32,550 --> 00:18:31,300
of what was it 2004 yes sir so we're

371
00:18:34,170 --> 00:18:32,560
going to go back at the same time of

372
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:34,180
year and and hope that they're still

373
00:18:40,110 --> 00:18:36,640
around or others like them will still be

374
00:18:44,870 --> 00:18:40,120
around and we're gonna go with equipment

375
00:18:47,460 --> 00:18:44,880
and try to try to find them try to

376
00:18:48,340 --> 00:18:47,470
measure any quality as we can about them

377
00:18:55,810 --> 00:18:48,350
and

378
00:18:57,700 --> 00:18:55,820
in that neighborhood regarding a green

379
00:18:59,649 --> 00:18:57,710
ball of light that actually descended

380
00:19:01,659 --> 00:18:59,659
into the ocean in the area can you tell

381
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:01,669
us a little bit about that that's a

382
00:19:07,450 --> 00:19:06,080
great story but for me I really

383
00:19:08,980 --> 00:19:07,460
appreciate the story because he's a

384
00:19:12,340 --> 00:19:08,990
close friend of mine we've been friends

385
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:12,350
since high school and but it's but it's

386
00:19:19,419 --> 00:19:16,970
it's a typical UFO sighting in that when

387
00:19:21,159 --> 00:19:19,429
you when you tell this story you know

388
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:21,169
there's always some aspect of this where

389
00:19:27,340 --> 00:19:23,840
somebody can hahaha and laugh it off and

390
00:19:29,789 --> 00:19:27,350
just pretend it didn't happen but yeah

391
00:19:31,930 --> 00:19:29,799
he my good friend his name's Joey

392
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:31,940
I'll just give the first names his

393
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:34,970
name's Joey and he was the for for a

394
00:19:40,419 --> 00:19:36,559
good period of time he was the head

395
00:19:43,930 --> 00:19:40,429
bartender at the ritz-carlton hotel in

396
00:19:46,570 --> 00:19:43,940
Laguna Beach and there was one day he

397
00:19:48,899 --> 00:19:46,580
was out in the evening he was out taking

398
00:19:51,279 --> 00:19:48,909
a break so he's out on the on the patio

399
00:19:53,649 --> 00:19:51,289
having a cigarette yeah I believe in

400
00:19:55,899 --> 00:19:53,659
he's he was just looking out at the

401
00:19:59,440 --> 00:19:55,909
water and and from from that point you

402
00:20:01,180 --> 00:19:59,450
can see Catalina from the shore and so

403
00:20:04,539 --> 00:20:01,190
he's looking out over the water and he

404
00:20:06,580 --> 00:20:04,549
saw this this bright green light he said

405
00:20:08,710 --> 00:20:06,590
it he described it as literally shooting

406
00:20:10,539 --> 00:20:08,720
down from space it looked like it came

407
00:20:13,749 --> 00:20:10,549
from space and went right into the ocean

408
00:20:15,159 --> 00:20:13,759
and he said it was so fast that had he

409
00:20:18,999 --> 00:20:15,169
blinked he would have missed it

410
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:19,009
so okay so familiar yeah so you saw this

411
00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:22,610
thing and he was stunned and thought oh

412
00:20:27,070 --> 00:20:24,710
my god was that real did I really see

413
00:20:28,659 --> 00:20:27,080
what I just thought I saw and he asked

414
00:20:30,129 --> 00:20:28,669
the people next to him you know there

415
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:30,139
are people standing in your body as some

416
00:20:34,210 --> 00:20:32,330
of the the other guests at the hotel if

417
00:20:36,279 --> 00:20:34,220
they had seen it and nobody had seen it

418
00:20:38,379 --> 00:20:36,289
and so so he started just running around

419
00:20:39,659 --> 00:20:38,389
asking everybody who was outside if they

420
00:20:41,919 --> 00:20:39,669
had seen this thing and he was

421
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:41,929
desperately fine trying to find someone

422
00:20:46,389 --> 00:20:43,250
else who had noticed it and nobody

423
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:46,399
noticed and and he was feeling pretty

424
00:20:50,399 --> 00:20:48,710
despondent about it and he ended up he

425
00:20:52,779 --> 00:20:50,409
decided to run up to the restaurant

426
00:20:54,190 --> 00:20:52,789
because there's an open-air section and

427
00:20:56,740 --> 00:20:54,200
he ran up to the restaurant and was

428
00:20:58,930 --> 00:20:56,750
asking around and he went to every table

429
00:21:01,260 --> 00:20:58,940
and you know asked if anybody had seen

430
00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:01,270
anything interesting and nobody had

431
00:21:04,110 --> 00:21:02,710
and there was one table off in the

432
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:04,120
corner and they were laughing and

433
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:06,730
laughing and so he was a little hesitant

434
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:08,170
to go over there but finally mustered

435
00:21:11,910 --> 00:21:09,850
the courage and walked over and asked

436
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:11,920
them and they stopped and listened and

437
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:14,320
he told them what happened and they said

438
00:21:18,570 --> 00:21:16,240
oh we were well we were just laughing

439
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:18,580
because this guy they pointed one of the

440
00:21:25,050 --> 00:21:19,450
guys to the table

441
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:25,060
this guy just saw and so he was

442
00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:27,760
vindicated you know and yeah it was so

443
00:21:31,950 --> 00:21:29,590
quick it was like a flash it was just an

444
00:21:33,780 --> 00:21:31,960
instant it was so quick you know his

445
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:33,790
poor guys friends were all laughing at

446
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:35,890
him so he was glad that you know Joey

447
00:21:43,170 --> 00:21:37,810
had come over and talk to him because he

448
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:43,180
was vindicated as well but what do you

449
00:21:47,070 --> 00:21:45,130
make of that well you can't do anything

450
00:21:49,380 --> 00:21:47,080
with it scientifically it's a flash of

451
00:21:53,130 --> 00:21:49,390
light you know and and you know you'll

452
00:21:58,170 --> 00:21:53,140
hear on Laura most people will say oh it

453
00:22:00,510 --> 00:21:58,180
could have been anything that's that's

454
00:22:02,790 --> 00:22:00,520
what it is and unfortunately most bars

455
00:22:19,860 --> 00:22:02,800
don't have radar systems set up there so

456
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:19,870
they would never like now have you heard

457
00:22:28,350 --> 00:22:22,650
this story before

458
00:22:35,210 --> 00:22:28,360
yeah have you heard the story before the

459
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:38,820
it was in the early 2000s 2001 2002

460
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:43,690
right around there okay so I was working

461
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:49,570
at NASA from 2000 to 2001 to 2005 I'm

462
00:23:02,310 --> 00:22:51,010
glad he was able to work up the courage

463
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:02,320
to tell you it is and so I had a few

464
00:23:05,660 --> 00:23:03,730
questions for you about the Nimitz

465
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:05,670
because I was still on that topic and

466
00:23:13,650 --> 00:23:08,770
wanted to ask you a few things about it

467
00:23:15,780 --> 00:23:13,660
and that is regarding the NIP the Nimitz

468
00:23:19,850 --> 00:23:15,790
sighting

469
00:23:23,010 --> 00:23:19,860
you did or did not rule out that it was

470
00:23:24,659 --> 00:23:23,020
et related I already know the answer to

471
00:23:29,460 --> 00:23:24,669
that but I want our listeners to hear

472
00:23:32,100 --> 00:23:29,470
why you didn't say this is et technology

473
00:23:38,159 --> 00:23:32,110
how did you come to that conclusion if

474
00:23:41,370 --> 00:23:38,169
that was the case and why mainly because

475
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:41,380
to show that something is et technology

476
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:43,210
you would have to demonstrate that it

477
00:23:51,299 --> 00:23:48,970
was developed by aliens and I would have

478
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:51,309
no way of doing that unless I actually

479
00:23:54,690 --> 00:23:53,200
saw the aliens who made it I don't know

480
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:54,700
any other way to do that I can't I

481
00:23:59,520 --> 00:23:57,010
couldn't easily rule out that some

482
00:24:02,130 --> 00:23:59,530
clever person you know like Elon Musk or

483
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:02,140
somebody has some secret or Bob Bigelow

484
00:24:07,169 --> 00:24:04,090
has some secret project where they've

485
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:07,179
basically designed this themselves okay

486
00:24:10,669 --> 00:24:09,010
so you can't you can't easily rule that

487
00:24:14,820 --> 00:24:10,679
out

488
00:24:16,620 --> 00:24:14,830
it could be Chinese and I'm glad you

489
00:24:18,330 --> 00:24:16,630
brought that up because my next question

490
00:24:21,270 --> 00:24:18,340
that kind of is a nice segue into the

491
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:21,280
next question I have and that is I've

492
00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:23,710
heard it said and so this is a

493
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:25,990
stereotype and assumption it's a blanket

494
00:24:30,150 --> 00:24:27,760
statement so I'm just gonna go ahead and

495
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:30,160
preface that what I have to say with

496
00:24:37,650 --> 00:24:34,090
that and that is I've heard all my life

497
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:37,660
that the you the military at least in

498
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:41,049
first world countries are allegedly 10

499
00:24:46,590 --> 00:24:43,360
to 20 years ahead of time regarding

500
00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:46,600
their technology so going along that

501
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:50,590
idea if that's true does that lend any

502
00:24:54,930 --> 00:24:52,690
credibility to the possibility that the

503
00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:54,940
tic-tock may have been one of ours is

504
00:24:59,820 --> 00:24:56,400
that possible

505
00:25:02,250 --> 00:24:59,830
it's still possible it's something I

506
00:25:05,310 --> 00:25:02,260
can't rule out the it makes it

507
00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:05,320
surprising because if you II had this

508
00:25:14,909 --> 00:25:11,710
technology in 2004 then all the

509
00:25:16,590 --> 00:25:14,919
aeronautical engineers in America or in

510
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:16,600
the world are being played for fools I

511
00:25:21,530 --> 00:25:18,370
mean this is this breaks all the rules

512
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:21,540
of aeronautical engineering and and so

513
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:27,010
we're I mean then NASA NASA itself is

514
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,690
being played for fools because we

515
00:25:32,340 --> 00:25:30,640
got these huge chemical rockets that

516
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:32,350
were using to lift materials off the

517
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:34,990
planet where you know apparently we've

518
00:25:38,610 --> 00:25:36,970
got you know if the if it's true that

519
00:25:41,490 --> 00:25:38,620
somebody on earth has craft that can

520
00:25:43,380 --> 00:25:41,500
accelerate at 5,000 G at 5,000 G you can

521
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:43,390
get from one side of the galaxy to the

522
00:25:51,450 --> 00:25:49,510
other and in a matter of weeks so this

523
00:25:53,460 --> 00:25:51,460
is this would be really shocking that we

524
00:25:55,890 --> 00:25:53,470
would have had this technology now for

525
00:26:00,810 --> 00:25:55,900
15 years and we haven't seen it used

526
00:26:02,550 --> 00:26:00,820
anywhere that I find that surprising now

527
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:02,560
the question is is that more support

528
00:26:05,970 --> 00:26:04,210
would that be more surprising than it

529
00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:05,980
being alien technology well I can't

530
00:26:12,930 --> 00:26:08,320
actually say that so it's this is still

531
00:26:15,930 --> 00:26:12,940
an unresolved issue okay and I still

532
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:15,940
have another question and that is did

533
00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:19,090
you get the opportunity to view Dave

534
00:26:26,780 --> 00:26:22,840
babies USS Nimitz documentary that he

535
00:26:30,090 --> 00:26:26,790
did do you feel also was that a good

536
00:26:35,610 --> 00:26:30,100
analysis and representation of what

537
00:26:38,190 --> 00:26:35,620
occurred you know from talking to Kevin

538
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:38,200
day personally our you know and from

539
00:26:48,380 --> 00:26:42,640
what I've read from the analysis of the

540
00:26:54,570 --> 00:26:51,390
was actually pretty good pretty good

541
00:26:56,070 --> 00:26:54,580
depiction of what happened okay Frank

542
00:26:58,710 --> 00:26:56,080
you had a question I'm sorry in a room

543
00:27:03,990 --> 00:26:58,720
yeah you had mentioned the acceleration

544
00:27:06,660 --> 00:27:04,000
at the 5,600 G's would be able to allow

545
00:27:08,550 --> 00:27:06,670
somebody to travel across the galaxy in

546
00:27:11,870 --> 00:27:08,560
a matter of weeks 100,000 light years

547
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:11,880
now and also you're going out to a

548
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:15,010
Catalina III I think that's about right

549
00:27:20,190 --> 00:27:17,410
if I'm wrong I please jump in let me now

550
00:27:23,850 --> 00:27:20,200
that's that's great and you're going out

551
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:23,860
to Catalina you know there's always been

552
00:27:30,210 --> 00:27:27,970
talk about a literal base in the

553
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:30,220
Catalina area chase klutz key went out

554
00:27:35,610 --> 00:27:33,690
and did a search with a little mission

555
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:35,620
regarding

556
00:27:39,250 --> 00:27:38,210
seeing some underwater photographs of

557
00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:39,260
what looked like it might have been a

558
00:27:44,530 --> 00:27:41,120
structure it turned out it wasn't but

559
00:27:46,210 --> 00:27:44,540
there has always been that talk what do

560
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:46,220
you think about that the possibility if

561
00:27:50,289 --> 00:27:48,170
there are a lot of these type of

562
00:27:51,850 --> 00:27:50,299
sightings and we're getting a lot of

563
00:27:53,950 --> 00:27:51,860
them that it's not entirely just

564
00:28:05,530 --> 00:27:53,960
traversing the galaxy but they're

565
00:28:08,970 --> 00:28:05,540
literally right here I said from your

566
00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:08,980
you know from his a tip studies did they

567
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:14,470
were they able to assess whether

568
00:28:19,210 --> 00:28:16,970
basically how many of these objects are

569
00:28:21,820 --> 00:28:19,220
on earth and a given time I said are

570
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:21,830
there tens of these things hundreds of

571
00:28:25,810 --> 00:28:23,330
these things thousands of these things

572
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:25,820
present and and he just didn't know I

573
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:27,679
mean this is this would be a very hard

574
00:28:34,180 --> 00:28:30,490
thing to collect data on of course but

575
00:28:37,860 --> 00:28:34,190
so yeah it's not it's not obvious that

576
00:28:40,090 --> 00:28:37,870
there there's not a base here earth

577
00:28:43,419 --> 00:28:40,100
let's be honest Earth is an interesting

578
00:28:45,789 --> 00:28:43,429
place we live here and it's interesting

579
00:28:48,130 --> 00:28:45,799
to us so I said it's an interesting

580
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:48,140
place you know especially compared to

581
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:50,330
the other bodies we've we've explored in

582
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:53,450
our solar system so so anybody studying

583
00:28:58,750 --> 00:28:56,090
earth I would imagine that you would

584
00:29:02,200 --> 00:28:58,760
spend time here that would be the

585
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:02,210
sensible thing to do okay and I did have

586
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:05,090
a question and that is can you discuss

587
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:08,210
the attitudes of scientists and the fact

588
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:09,919
that scientists need to get more

589
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:12,320
involved in the kind of topics that

590
00:29:23,860 --> 00:29:17,090
we're talking about right now all these

591
00:29:27,850 --> 00:29:23,870
issues and and the one of the

592
00:29:30,159 --> 00:29:27,860
difficulties in science is that there

593
00:29:33,580 --> 00:29:30,169
are a lot of interesting things to study

594
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:33,590
and you just don't have the time and

595
00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:36,010
resources to study all of these things I

596
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:38,150
typically tend to take on too many

597
00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:40,010
projects because I can't say no to

598
00:29:47,379 --> 00:29:45,679
something really interesting don't make

599
00:29:48,669 --> 00:29:47,389
a lot of progress and I love them

600
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:48,679
of them because they're just under the

601
00:29:56,409 --> 00:29:53,690
time and energy but but so what you

602
00:30:00,190 --> 00:29:56,419
often do is you performs a sort of

603
00:30:02,169 --> 00:30:00,200
triage you look at a problem and you

604
00:30:05,169 --> 00:30:02,179
decide whether this is worth studying

605
00:30:09,789 --> 00:30:05,179
and scientists do this all the time and

606
00:30:12,489 --> 00:30:09,799
and unfortunately UFOs have been you

607
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:12,499
know triage and basically thrown into

608
00:30:17,259 --> 00:30:14,450
the pile of not worth studying because

609
00:30:19,209 --> 00:30:17,269
there's probably nothing there now why

610
00:30:21,329 --> 00:30:19,219
is that the case there's actually a good

611
00:30:24,389 --> 00:30:21,339
reason for this

612
00:30:29,199 --> 00:30:24,399
unfortunately this goes back to our

613
00:30:32,499 --> 00:30:29,209
prior expectations in the 1940s when

614
00:30:34,810 --> 00:30:32,509
these things were first when it was

615
00:30:37,629 --> 00:30:34,820
first made publicly known that these

616
00:30:40,079 --> 00:30:37,639
things were encountered so you have 1947

617
00:30:44,289 --> 00:30:40,089
was a big year you had Kenneth Arnold

618
00:30:47,529 --> 00:30:44,299
saw the half moon saucer-shaped craft

619
00:30:49,569 --> 00:30:47,539
near Mount Washington a few weeks later

620
00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:49,579
you have the Roswell incident later

621
00:30:54,459 --> 00:30:52,159
later on another couple of weeks you

622
00:30:58,739 --> 00:30:54,469
have the Puget Sound incident so you've

623
00:31:01,629 --> 00:30:58,749
got a few things going on that made UFOs

624
00:31:04,060 --> 00:31:01,639
UFOs basically entered the public

625
00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:04,070
consciousness in the United States in

626
00:31:08,199 --> 00:31:06,559
that in that year now that that was that

627
00:31:09,459 --> 00:31:08,209
was not at all the first year that these

628
00:31:11,379 --> 00:31:09,469
things were ever seen they've got

629
00:31:14,619 --> 00:31:11,389
sightings going back to the 1800s and

630
00:31:17,109 --> 00:31:14,629
before but this is when the public was

631
00:31:19,779 --> 00:31:17,119
became more widely known that this was

632
00:31:22,269 --> 00:31:19,789
good this was a possibility and if you

633
00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:22,279
consider the situation in 1947 you're

634
00:31:31,690 --> 00:31:27,200
ten years before Sputnik 2 weeks before

635
00:31:34,539 --> 00:31:31,700
Sputnik the the Royal astronomer if

636
00:31:37,329 --> 00:31:34,549
Britain called space travel bunk that

637
00:31:41,199 --> 00:31:37,339
was two weeks before sperner's you have

638
00:31:44,289 --> 00:31:41,209
you have a class of scientists who ten

639
00:31:46,719 --> 00:31:44,299
years before Sputnik didn't think space

640
00:31:48,339 --> 00:31:46,729
travel was possible you had a lot of

641
00:31:50,979 --> 00:31:48,349
people who seriously didn't think it was

642
00:31:55,389 --> 00:31:50,989
even a possible thing you could do and

643
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:55,399
in 1947 we really didn't have a lot of

644
00:31:58,899 --> 00:31:57,200
information about what the planets in

645
00:31:59,280 --> 00:31:58,909
our solar system were like we knew what

646
00:32:00,480 --> 00:31:59,290
there

647
00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:00,490
for light because you can get that

648
00:32:04,110 --> 00:32:02,470
information from spectra but we didn't

649
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:04,120
know whether there was life on Mars or

650
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:06,970
not I have a little golden book of the

651
00:32:10,980 --> 00:32:08,890
planets that has a picture of what Mars

652
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:10,990
might look like and that in that book

653
00:32:14,730 --> 00:32:13,090
was written in 1968 and has all sorts of

654
00:32:16,020 --> 00:32:14,740
weird life forms on it you know in the

655
00:32:17,370 --> 00:32:16,030
pictures I like showing that to my

656
00:32:20,250 --> 00:32:17,380
astronomy class because it really

657
00:32:21,690 --> 00:32:20,260
highlights her state of ignorance so we

658
00:32:26,340 --> 00:32:21,700
didn't really know what the planets were

659
00:32:28,620 --> 00:32:26,350
like in 1947 and we didn't know whether

660
00:32:31,620 --> 00:32:28,630
there were any planets under around any

661
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:31,630
other stars that wasn't known until the

662
00:32:35,940 --> 00:32:33,850
1990s when we first discovered

663
00:32:40,350 --> 00:32:35,950
exoplanets and that didn't really take

664
00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:40,360
off until the 2000s so in 1947 we really

665
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:42,430
had no idea what the universe was like

666
00:32:49,890 --> 00:32:44,890
we didn't know it was possible to travel

667
00:32:52,260 --> 00:32:49,900
through it and could UFOs be alien

668
00:32:53,730 --> 00:32:52,270
spacecraft well probably not that would

669
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:53,740
be that would be the most reasonable

670
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:55,450
assessment I mean if you're especially

671
00:33:00,510 --> 00:32:57,250
if you're the belief that space travel

672
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:00,520
is impossible you're gonna it's much

673
00:33:07,620 --> 00:33:02,290
more likely that UFOs are something else

674
00:33:11,610 --> 00:33:07,630
and so that that attitude basically

675
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:11,620
prevails to this day and despite the

676
00:33:15,270 --> 00:33:13,330
fact that our prior information about

677
00:33:18,180 --> 00:33:15,280
the universe has changed dramatically

678
00:33:20,490 --> 00:33:18,190
and despite the fact that we ourselves

679
00:33:22,260 --> 00:33:20,500
have visited other worlds and are

680
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:22,270
planning our own interest other missions

681
00:33:26,690 --> 00:33:24,010
you know NASA is planning to send a

682
00:33:31,290 --> 00:33:26,700
probe to the health to Proxima Centauri

683
00:33:33,390 --> 00:33:31,300
on 2069 the 100 year anniversary of the

684
00:33:35,790 --> 00:33:33,400
moon landings so where we are now

685
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:35,800
beginning the first steps to

686
00:33:39,390 --> 00:33:37,330
interstellar travel ourselves we're

687
00:33:45,300 --> 00:33:39,400
going to do it we're going to make it

688
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,310
happen and so what's interesting to me

689
00:33:50,430 --> 00:33:47,760
is that despite the fact that our

690
00:33:52,020 --> 00:33:50,440
knowledge about the universe has changed

691
00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:52,030
and our knowledge about the

692
00:33:55,740 --> 00:33:53,710
possibilities has changed that

693
00:33:59,820 --> 00:33:55,750
scientists still think that this is

694
00:34:02,270 --> 00:33:59,830
unreasonable and surprises me and

695
00:34:06,090 --> 00:34:02,280
especially surprises me when there are

696
00:34:08,190 --> 00:34:06,100
SETI efforts going on especially SETI

697
00:34:10,290 --> 00:34:08,200
efforts that are involved in looking for

698
00:34:13,350 --> 00:34:10,300
alien artifacts on the moon

699
00:34:14,730 --> 00:34:13,360
Mars and asteroids and you know the

700
00:34:19,970 --> 00:34:14,740
thinking there is that if you want to

701
00:34:23,580 --> 00:34:19,980
observe earth you can set up a you can

702
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:23,590
you can the ideas that they might have

703
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:25,690
set up some observation base on the moon

704
00:34:31,260 --> 00:34:29,170
to observe earth but anybody who's

705
00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:31,270
worked with the remote observing knows

706
00:34:35,220 --> 00:34:33,520
and I've done this on NASA it's much

707
00:34:38,430 --> 00:34:35,230
better to get ground truth why would you

708
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:38,440
travel light-years to set up a base on

709
00:34:41,630 --> 00:34:39,850
the moon and study Earth from the moon

710
00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:41,640
when you can actually land on the earth

711
00:34:48,810 --> 00:34:46,000
much better to be here and so so now

712
00:34:50,970 --> 00:34:48,820
this answers you know several questions

713
00:34:54,990 --> 00:34:50,980
because this is no no we're back to

714
00:34:57,660 --> 00:34:55,000
could there be a base here yeah I mean

715
00:34:59,970 --> 00:34:57,670
if they have the number of really wild

716
00:35:01,890 --> 00:34:59,980
unexplained cases with the sort of

717
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:01,900
flight characteristics they picked up

718
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:04,570
with the nimitz are out there you got to

719
00:35:09,390 --> 00:35:07,510
at least consider it anyway but III was

720
00:35:15,050 --> 00:35:09,400
looking at that one of your slides that

721
00:35:18,900 --> 00:35:15,060
you presented at the seu and you cited a

722
00:35:21,390 --> 00:35:18,910
paper how rare is complex life in the

723
00:35:23,610 --> 00:35:21,400
Milky Way can you answer for the folks

724
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:23,620
at home well what do you what was meant

725
00:35:31,950 --> 00:35:25,690
by complex life or what are we talking

726
00:35:33,660 --> 00:35:31,960
about here specific organisms I don't

727
00:35:36,210 --> 00:35:33,670
remember the details from that paper but

728
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:36,220
they basically were doing simulations of

729
00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:41,050
chemistry and biology and and along with

730
00:35:47,250 --> 00:35:44,310
some statistics of the known exoplanet

731
00:35:49,230 --> 00:35:47,260
you know statistics to try to get some

732
00:35:51,270 --> 00:35:49,240
idea of where you might expect to see

733
00:35:59,400 --> 00:35:51,280
and then primitive life would be

734
00:36:02,370 --> 00:35:59,410
something like bacteria may be okay yeah

735
00:36:06,180 --> 00:36:02,380
and actually had an odd question for you

736
00:36:11,220 --> 00:36:06,190
and not that the topic we're talking

737
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:11,230
about is super normal the topic the

738
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:14,770
question I had for you Kevin is I wanted

739
00:36:21,330 --> 00:36:18,450
to know do you believe that if there are

740
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:21,340
ET civilizations whether being the

741
00:36:27,730 --> 00:36:24,170
singular or plural

742
00:36:30,310 --> 00:36:27,740
are on this planet already or visiting

743
00:36:32,890 --> 00:36:30,320
our planet whatever manner or presence

744
00:36:40,540 --> 00:36:32,900
they have here do you believe that they

745
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:40,550
have a military baby that organized in

746
00:36:44,620 --> 00:36:42,530
other words do they do you feel that

747
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:44,630
they're capable since they could be

748
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:47,570
ahead technology wise let's just assume

749
00:36:53,830 --> 00:36:50,930
they are do you think that they would be

750
00:36:55,180 --> 00:36:53,840
that well I don't even know if the word

751
00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:55,190
sophisticated would be very good for

752
00:36:58,510 --> 00:36:56,960
cutting back but do you think they would

753
00:37:00,040 --> 00:36:58,520
be organized in that manner or

754
00:37:04,390 --> 00:37:00,050
structured in that manner their

755
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:04,400
civilization would like to speculate on

756
00:37:12,070 --> 00:37:07,490
what aliens could be like in in this

757
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:12,080
sense there are you know there are some

758
00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:13,850
hypothetical situations you could

759
00:37:23,500 --> 00:37:18,710
consider but so what do you imagine I

760
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:23,510
think I think that given the the

761
00:37:29,610 --> 00:37:27,250
observed accelerations and the

762
00:37:32,050 --> 00:37:29,620
technologies that I imagine you would

763
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:32,060
need to have to be able to pull

764
00:37:37,630 --> 00:37:34,370
something like that off I can't imagine

765
00:37:41,050 --> 00:37:37,640
that if they wanted to they could be a

766
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:41,060
threat no what kind of threat I don't I

767
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:44,450
don't know you know I don't know why

768
00:37:47,770 --> 00:37:46,400
anybody would take over a planet or

769
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:47,780
something like this like you see in

770
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:49,490
science fiction I think that's kind of a

771
00:37:58,300 --> 00:37:53,930
silly silly notion but but I think that

772
00:38:00,760 --> 00:37:58,310
if we threatened them then they could

773
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:00,770
certainly be a threat to us that's

774
00:38:05,860 --> 00:38:03,530
actually why bring this up good yeah but

775
00:38:09,700 --> 00:38:05,870
i but i but I hesitate doing that

776
00:38:11,730 --> 00:38:09,710
because I watched you know I didn't

777
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:11,740
watch all of the episodes from the the

778
00:38:19,510 --> 00:38:15,370
TTS a documentary unidentified and I

779
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:19,520
mm-hmm was nervous about that when it

780
00:38:26,530 --> 00:38:22,490
was finished because the overalls theme

781
00:38:31,630 --> 00:38:26,540
seemed to be focused on them being a

782
00:38:35,950 --> 00:38:31,640
threat now on one hand I get that

783
00:38:38,060 --> 00:38:35,960
because the a tip studies were the

784
00:38:41,630 --> 00:38:38,070
Department of Defense that's their job

785
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:41,640
their job is to assess threats fine and

786
00:38:47,660 --> 00:38:43,440
and they did their job and I think that

787
00:38:50,510 --> 00:38:47,670
that's excellent and so on one hand

788
00:38:52,190 --> 00:38:50,520
that's good on the other hand I think

789
00:38:54,620 --> 00:38:52,200
it's important for people to realize

790
00:38:56,300 --> 00:38:54,630
that military studies or Pentagon or

791
00:38:58,700 --> 00:38:56,310
defense studies are not scientific

792
00:39:00,410 --> 00:38:58,710
studies scientific studies are different

793
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:00,420
they have different goals they have

794
00:39:08,180 --> 00:39:03,450
different questions they want answered

795
00:39:10,700 --> 00:39:08,190
and so I know a lot of people look to a

796
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:10,710
tip for information and answers and data

797
00:39:14,330 --> 00:39:12,810
but they're not gonna be able to answer

798
00:39:15,950 --> 00:39:14,340
everything that we want we're going to

799
00:39:19,550 --> 00:39:15,960
want to know that's going to require

800
00:39:22,490 --> 00:39:19,560
scientific study and science science

801
00:39:24,410 --> 00:39:22,500
science works best when people cooperate

802
00:39:26,330 --> 00:39:24,420
and share data and share information and

803
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:26,340
share ideas that's that's when things

804
00:39:32,270 --> 00:39:30,810
work best and and from the way a lot of

805
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:32,280
you know a lot of black work is

806
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:35,010
conducted you end up with scientists

807
00:39:38,390 --> 00:39:36,510
working in pairs where they can only

808
00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:38,400
talk to each other or you know where

809
00:39:43,970 --> 00:39:40,110
some limited group of people and they

810
00:39:45,590 --> 00:39:43,980
can't share information and I don't see

811
00:39:48,020 --> 00:39:45,600
that is always being effective

812
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:48,030
you know it's effective from a you know

813
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:50,130
from a secret standpoint where you want

814
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:51,510
to keep things quiet and you want to

815
00:39:56,450 --> 00:39:53,970
make progress at the same time but at

816
00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:56,460
this point I don't think it's useful to

817
00:40:00,290 --> 00:39:58,170
keep this stuff secret anymore I think

818
00:40:01,850 --> 00:40:00,300
that we all need to know what's going on

819
00:40:03,950 --> 00:40:01,860
and I think we all need to work on this

820
00:40:07,550 --> 00:40:03,960
I think it's potentially a serious

821
00:40:10,850 --> 00:40:07,560
serious issue yeah you know it's hard

822
00:40:14,210 --> 00:40:10,860
being a human and wondering about a

823
00:40:17,870 --> 00:40:14,220
different civilization that isn't and so

824
00:40:22,030 --> 00:40:17,880
my naive mind I kind of in a wide-eyed

825
00:40:25,310 --> 00:40:22,040
manner look at a different type of

826
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:25,320
civilization and I assume that they

827
00:40:30,740 --> 00:40:28,290
could be I'm just pretending millions of

828
00:40:33,530 --> 00:40:30,750
years ahead in their technology and if

829
00:40:34,970 --> 00:40:33,540
that's the case I wonder what they have

830
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:34,980
evolved past the point of needing

831
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:39,690
military and if not why but anyway I

832
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:41,520
wanted to ask you a question and that is

833
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:45,410
about radar is radar proof of anything

834
00:40:51,170 --> 00:40:48,570
Kevin regarding an anomalous object in

835
00:40:51,859 --> 00:40:51,180
the sky and if so how can it be used to

836
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:51,869
prove any

837
00:40:57,559 --> 00:40:53,730
and then we'll go into what proof is

838
00:41:01,400 --> 00:40:57,569
later regarding science a piece of

839
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:01,410
evidence it doesn't constitute proof by

840
00:41:08,779 --> 00:41:05,970
itself - really you know what you really

841
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:08,789
want in these situations as you want

842
00:41:16,539 --> 00:41:12,089
multiple imaging modalities that that

843
00:41:21,019 --> 00:41:16,549
I'll concur and so when you have

844
00:41:22,460 --> 00:41:21,029
somebody like senior chief day somebody

845
00:41:26,329 --> 00:41:22,470
like senior chief day picking these

846
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:26,339
things up on radar and then instructing

847
00:41:31,220 --> 00:41:28,890
you know commander favor to go to this

848
00:41:32,900 --> 00:41:31,230
location and see what this is and flavor

849
00:41:35,569 --> 00:41:32,910
gets there and actually sees an object

850
00:41:40,009 --> 00:41:35,579
that's anomalous then these things

851
00:41:42,559 --> 00:41:40,019
concur you know so and you know or order

852
00:41:44,749 --> 00:41:42,569
the subsequent flight that went with the

853
00:41:46,910 --> 00:41:44,759
atmosphere with the infrared imaging and

854
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:46,920
actually captured infrared images of the

855
00:41:54,259 --> 00:41:49,680
object and while it's true that you know

856
00:41:56,059 --> 00:41:54,269
as some of the more publicly prominent

857
00:41:57,859 --> 00:41:56,069
scientists have noted you know when

858
00:41:59,509 --> 00:41:57,869
discussing the Adler videos you know

859
00:42:00,859 --> 00:41:59,519
they basically throw their arms up and

860
00:42:02,180 --> 00:42:00,869
say well it could it be anything it's a

861
00:42:04,039 --> 00:42:02,190
blurry image well of course it's a

862
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:04,049
blurry image it's an infrared image you

863
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:05,249
know what do you expect it to be of

864
00:42:10,819 --> 00:42:07,920
course it's gonna be blurry but it can't

865
00:42:13,539 --> 00:42:10,829
be anything that's that's the the issue

866
00:42:15,799 --> 00:42:13,549
I mean I think you know my my favorite

867
00:42:17,390 --> 00:42:15,809
explanation that I had somebody throw at

868
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:17,400
me was maybe it's a highly reflective

869
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:23,970
bird I've been a bird watcher since I

870
00:42:27,970 --> 00:42:25,920
was five years old so for me this is

871
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:27,980
really a stupid thing to say

872
00:42:35,839 --> 00:42:33,210
Mach three yeah exactly well actually

873
00:42:38,599 --> 00:42:35,849
actually yeah faster than that I think

874
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:38,609
the the top speeds you were looking at

875
00:42:42,789 --> 00:42:40,890
are you know it's looking at Mach 16 or

876
00:42:45,229 --> 00:42:42,799
something like this in some cases so

877
00:42:47,180 --> 00:42:45,239
it's that's ridiculous saying it saying

878
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:47,190
it could be anything is ridiculous no it

879
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:49,440
can't be anything it is something

880
00:42:55,099 --> 00:42:52,319
special though it's it what it can't be

881
00:42:57,470 --> 00:42:55,109
as it can't be an f-18 and it can't be

882
00:43:00,259 --> 00:42:57,480
an make so and it's not a missile so

883
00:43:03,379 --> 00:43:00,269
that's of interest

884
00:43:04,999 --> 00:43:03,389
okay I do have a question that I am so

885
00:43:07,579 --> 00:43:05,009
glad I thought of I didn't want to

886
00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:07,589
forget this and I want to know how do

887
00:43:13,339 --> 00:43:10,319
you translate this into a scientific

888
00:43:14,779 --> 00:43:13,349
observation and that is this when we

889
00:43:18,169 --> 00:43:14,789
were talking to the gentleman from the

890
00:43:21,409 --> 00:43:18,179
USS Nimitz in the USS Princeton a few of

891
00:43:24,009 --> 00:43:21,419
them mentioned how there were some

892
00:43:26,839 --> 00:43:24,019
people that came on to their ship and

893
00:43:29,779 --> 00:43:26,849
coveted that information meaning the

894
00:43:33,709 --> 00:43:29,789
anomalous object that they all witnessed

895
00:43:37,489 --> 00:43:33,719
and the recorded imagery of it now my

896
00:43:42,039 --> 00:43:37,499
question to you is since you're so

897
00:43:45,469 --> 00:43:42,049
deeply involved in this topic from the

898
00:43:49,339 --> 00:43:45,479
the side of science how do you then

899
00:43:52,489 --> 00:43:49,349
insert that behavior into your science

900
00:43:54,199 --> 00:43:52,499
paper if you were to cite it because you

901
00:43:58,759 --> 00:43:54,209
know you're talking about humans and

902
00:44:01,699 --> 00:43:58,769
their reactions but still it's important

903
00:44:04,969 --> 00:44:01,709
that there are people coming on board

904
00:44:07,149 --> 00:44:04,979
these ships to grab that data does it

905
00:44:10,359 --> 00:44:07,159
matter to science what they did because

906
00:44:13,489 --> 00:44:10,369
you know if that's one of our own

907
00:44:15,319 --> 00:44:13,499
objects that were command deering why

908
00:44:20,659 --> 00:44:15,329
would we then have our own go grab that

909
00:44:23,419 --> 00:44:20,669
imagery well yeah so now we're now we

910
00:44:25,369 --> 00:44:23,429
have to hypothesize what the intent of

911
00:44:27,289 --> 00:44:25,379
those people were and what their

912
00:44:30,529 --> 00:44:27,299
motivations were and that becomes

913
00:44:33,109 --> 00:44:30,539
challenging the the what's surprising to

914
00:44:35,869 --> 00:44:33,119
me is the fact that they knew that those

915
00:44:37,459 --> 00:44:35,879
encounters took place and from the

916
00:44:40,179 --> 00:44:37,469
people from the Nimitz that I've talked

917
00:44:45,499 --> 00:44:40,189
to that is also surprising to them so

918
00:44:49,059 --> 00:44:45,509
that would lead me to believe that there

919
00:44:51,259 --> 00:44:49,069
is then a higher probability that that

920
00:44:54,019 --> 00:44:51,269
whoever these people were knew about

921
00:44:56,329 --> 00:44:54,029
these objects beforehand possibly

922
00:44:58,639 --> 00:44:56,339
because they were their objects and and

923
00:45:04,729 --> 00:44:58,649
that belonged to them or their program

924
00:45:06,979 --> 00:45:04,739
no I would worry that you know if you

925
00:45:10,879 --> 00:45:06,989
have another military program going on

926
00:45:13,129 --> 00:45:10,889
and you've got craft flying around that

927
00:45:13,790 --> 00:45:13,139
are basically interfering with training

928
00:45:17,060 --> 00:45:13,800
program

929
00:45:18,980 --> 00:45:17,070
in the Navy or interfering with Navy

930
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:18,990
pilots you know buzzing past their

931
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:21,930
planes and putting them in danger that

932
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:23,520
doesn't sound very legal to me I'm not

933
00:45:28,970 --> 00:45:26,130
an expert in legality of these issues

934
00:45:32,270 --> 00:45:28,980
but that sounds dangerous and foolish in

935
00:45:34,850 --> 00:45:32,280
many respects so well that's why yes and

936
00:45:36,890 --> 00:45:34,860
I I do know that there are real strict

937
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:36,900
limits in terms of let's say yeah

938
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:38,850
breaking the sound barrier for example

939
00:45:45,650 --> 00:45:44,010
for any of those military craft right in

940
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:45,660
all these cases in all the cases I

941
00:45:49,310 --> 00:45:47,370
looked at these the airplanes were

942
00:45:54,170 --> 00:45:49,320
approached in close proximity by these

943
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:54,180
objects and and that's that's a safety

944
00:46:00,200 --> 00:45:57,210
issue that's Richard Haines who was also

945
00:46:03,140 --> 00:46:00,210
formerly from NASA Ames had set up my

946
00:46:06,260 --> 00:46:03,150
cap which is reporting anonymous

947
00:46:08,330 --> 00:46:06,270
reporting agency for pilots because he

948
00:46:10,190 --> 00:46:08,340
was concerned about about aviation

949
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:10,200
safety issues and these this is an

950
00:46:16,670 --> 00:46:13,440
aviation safety issue and so I I find it

951
00:46:18,740 --> 00:46:16,680
frustrating when I do encounter

952
00:46:21,170 --> 00:46:18,750
scientists and others who blow this off

953
00:46:23,330 --> 00:46:21,180
or try to blow this off and say it could

954
00:46:25,190 --> 00:46:23,340
be anything well we need to look into it

955
00:46:26,990 --> 00:46:25,200
because this is an aviation problem

956
00:46:29,570 --> 00:46:27,000
you're gonna end up with a downed pilot

957
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:29,580
you know or you got you got passenger

958
00:46:34,910 --> 00:46:32,880
jet pilots seeing these things I don't

959
00:46:37,100 --> 00:46:34,920
want to be in a plane flying you know

960
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:37,110
from New York to San Francisco and have

961
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:40,050
my pilot have to evade you know evade

962
00:46:44,060 --> 00:46:42,450
some approaching unknown aircraft I

963
00:46:45,230 --> 00:46:44,070
don't want to have to know I mean I'm

964
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:45,240
not gonna know about it because they

965
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:46,800
keep it quiet but I don't need my I

966
00:46:52,130 --> 00:46:48,720
don't need my pilot on edge because that

967
00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:52,140
happened these are things that should be

968
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:54,000
worried about and Congress Congress

969
00:46:58,190 --> 00:46:55,530
should get involved this is really why

970
00:47:00,440 --> 00:46:58,200
Congress should be involved right and so

971
00:47:03,710 --> 00:47:00,450
I don't mean to be a professor yeah let

972
00:47:05,450 --> 00:47:03,720
me jump in here real quick yeah and you

973
00:47:07,940 --> 00:47:05,460
had mentioned Congress being involved it

974
00:47:09,590 --> 00:47:07,950
seems like the Congress people who are

975
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:09,600
interested in are getting briefed on

976
00:47:15,620 --> 00:47:13,170
this issue are folks that are members of

977
00:47:18,140 --> 00:47:15,630
various military related committees and

978
00:47:21,130 --> 00:47:18,150
not the science are you a little

979
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:21,140
disappointed that it the the scientific

980
00:47:25,660 --> 00:47:23,370
committees are not taking a closer look

981
00:47:28,750 --> 00:47:25,670
at this

982
00:47:32,289 --> 00:47:28,760
yes and now I think I mean I understand

983
00:47:34,299 --> 00:47:32,299
it I think that the the belief that the

984
00:47:37,059 --> 00:47:34,309
first concern is that these rings are

985
00:47:39,579 --> 00:47:37,069
Russian or Chinese or you know from some

986
00:47:41,260 --> 00:47:39,589
other nation and that I think is

987
00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:41,270
probably their first concern and that's

988
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:44,089
probably the reasonable question to ask

989
00:47:50,380 --> 00:47:48,890
first once that gets resolved and if we

990
00:47:54,250 --> 00:47:50,390
find out they're not Russian or Chinese

991
00:47:56,020 --> 00:47:54,260
or any but anybody else then then the

992
00:47:58,440 --> 00:47:56,030
question comes you know who do they

993
00:48:07,299 --> 00:48:04,500
you know we'll have to get involved I

994
00:48:09,970 --> 00:48:07,309
would I would like it if scientists had

995
00:48:11,230 --> 00:48:09,980
been involved from the beginning you

996
00:48:13,690 --> 00:48:11,240
know basically from when the SETI

997
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:13,700
project started you know the these

998
00:48:17,980 --> 00:48:15,410
things should have been looked at along

999
00:48:19,990 --> 00:48:17,990
with looking for radio waves radio

1000
00:48:22,599 --> 00:48:20,000
signals from from other worlds I mean

1001
00:48:24,010 --> 00:48:22,609
you if you have aliens here that's

1002
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:24,020
definitely something you want to know

1003
00:48:36,099 --> 00:48:33,440
about you know look into it seriously

1004
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:36,109
assess it and then go from there so

1005
00:48:40,450 --> 00:48:38,089
Kevin I want to nickel you about

1006
00:48:42,819 --> 00:48:40,460
something and kind of like see if you'll

1007
00:48:46,450 --> 00:48:42,829
allow me to be redundant with you and

1008
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:46,460
that is I want to know do you feel how

1009
00:48:55,410 --> 00:48:50,319
do you feel about the possibility of

1010
00:48:58,210 --> 00:48:55,420
this tick pack being one of ours and

1011
00:49:00,789 --> 00:48:58,220
invading our own airspace so to speak in

1012
00:49:02,829 --> 00:49:00,799
a manner that would put people in

1013
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:02,839
jeopardy that would be illegal

1014
00:49:07,109 --> 00:49:04,250
does that sound like something we would

1015
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:07,119
do I mean that that just sounds odd I

1016
00:49:12,460 --> 00:49:10,250
mean why would we do that I'm not

1017
00:49:15,940 --> 00:49:12,470
expecting you answer that and then also

1018
00:49:18,490 --> 00:49:15,950
wouldn't it also lend a bit more more to

1019
00:49:22,020 --> 00:49:18,500
a possibility that it could be not one

1020
00:49:27,609 --> 00:49:22,030
of ours so to speak but something else

1021
00:49:31,059 --> 00:49:27,619
really hypothesize about the motives or

1022
00:49:33,220 --> 00:49:31,069
actions of in people or groups that are

1023
00:49:35,530 --> 00:49:33,230
government I mean I can just say

1024
00:49:37,870 --> 00:49:35,540
Tuskegee Experiment and we're done with

1025
00:49:40,490 --> 00:49:37,880
that conversation so yes

1026
00:49:43,970 --> 00:49:40,500
hybl do do those things and that does

1027
00:49:45,710 --> 00:49:43,980
happen so it's it's a possibility well

1028
00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:45,720
thank you very much I wanted to talk

1029
00:49:50,180 --> 00:49:48,510
about the conclusion of your paper and

1030
00:49:51,590 --> 00:49:50,190
the paper being estimating flight

1031
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:51,600
characteristics of anomalous

1032
00:49:57,050 --> 00:49:54,570
unidentified aerial vehicles now I just

1033
00:49:59,060 --> 00:49:57,060
wanted to read a sentence or two from

1034
00:50:01,400 --> 00:49:59,070
your conclusion in fact is it okay if I

1035
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:01,410
just read a good part of it is that all

1036
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:06,090
right thank you very much I appreciate

1037
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:08,880
that regarding your conclusion it says

1038
00:50:12,860 --> 00:50:11,010
it is difficult to draw any useful

1039
00:50:14,630 --> 00:50:12,870
conclusions at this point we have

1040
00:50:16,700 --> 00:50:14,640
characterized the accelerations of a

1041
00:50:19,250 --> 00:50:16,710
number of UAVs and have demonstrated

1042
00:50:21,350 --> 00:50:19,260
that if they are craft then they're

1043
00:50:23,300 --> 00:50:21,360
indeed anomalous displaying technical

1044
00:50:26,030 --> 00:50:23,310
capabilities far exceeding those of our

1045
00:50:27,290 --> 00:50:26,040
fastest craft and spacecraft it is not

1046
00:50:29,540 --> 00:50:27,300
clear that these objects are

1047
00:50:31,340 --> 00:50:29,550
extraterrestrial in origin but it is

1048
00:50:33,380 --> 00:50:31,350
extremely difficult to imagine that

1049
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:33,390
anyone on earth with such technology

1050
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:35,850
would not put it to use moreover

1051
00:50:40,430 --> 00:50:38,010
observations of similar you AP's goes

1052
00:50:42,860 --> 00:50:40,440
back to well before the error of flight

1053
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:42,870
collectively these observations strongly

1054
00:50:46,580 --> 00:50:44,970
suggest that these UAVs should be

1055
00:50:48,410 --> 00:50:46,590
carefully studied by scientists

1056
00:50:52,210 --> 00:50:48,420
unfortunately the attitude that the

1057
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:52,220
studies of UAVs UFOs is unscientific

1058
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:54,690
pervades the scientific community

1059
00:50:59,030 --> 00:50:56,490
including SETI search for

1060
00:51:01,280 --> 00:50:59,040
extraterrestrial intelligence which is

1061
00:51:02,570 --> 00:51:01,290
surprising especially since efforts are

1062
00:51:05,150 --> 00:51:02,580
underway to search for extraterrestrial

1063
00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:05,160
artifacts in the solar system on the

1064
00:51:10,940 --> 00:51:08,160
moon Mars and asteroids and at Earth

1065
00:51:13,490 --> 00:51:10,950
associated Lagrange points ironically

1066
00:51:15,950 --> 00:51:13,500
such attitudes inhibit scientific study

1067
00:51:18,170 --> 00:51:15,960
perpetuating a state of ignorance about

1068
00:51:20,150 --> 00:51:18,180
these phenomena that has persisted for

1069
00:51:22,610 --> 00:51:20,160
well over seventy years and is now

1070
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:22,620
detrimental since answers are presently

1071
00:51:27,410 --> 00:51:25,410
needed what a really impactful powerful

1072
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:27,420
thing that you said there Kevin can you

1073
00:51:37,130 --> 00:51:28,890
please tell us a little bit more about

1074
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:37,140
that conclusion that you did I have to

1075
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:39,570
say I wrote that a couple weeks ago and

1076
00:51:44,330 --> 00:51:42,570
I have I keep going over the paper

1077
00:51:47,420 --> 00:51:44,340
because I'm still making a few edits to

1078
00:51:49,310 --> 00:51:47,430
it and and I still really really like

1079
00:51:50,890 --> 00:51:49,320
that conclusion I think it hits all the

1080
00:51:53,140 --> 00:51:50,900
points that I wanted

1081
00:51:54,940 --> 00:51:53,150
yeah it hit home really well thank you

1082
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:54,950
so much for having allowed me to read

1083
00:51:59,530 --> 00:51:57,770
that and this paper a kind of funny

1084
00:52:07,510 --> 00:51:59,540
question how long did it take you to

1085
00:52:09,310 --> 00:52:07,520
write it oh my gosh if you include if

1086
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:09,320
you include doing the analysis of the

1087
00:52:17,470 --> 00:52:12,890
data probably I've been working on it

1088
00:52:21,250 --> 00:52:17,480
since since March or so so I guess it's

1089
00:52:23,980 --> 00:52:21,260
been about four months or something like

1090
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:23,990
that four or five months now I notice

1091
00:52:26,830 --> 00:52:24,650
that she brought up the

1092
00:52:29,650 --> 00:52:26,840
extra-terrestrial hypothesis that would

1093
00:52:32,530 --> 00:52:29,660
be shocks of Valley's hypothesis why did

1094
00:52:34,300 --> 00:52:32,540
you do that because it's a question that

1095
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:34,310
is going to come up when reading a paper

1096
00:52:41,290 --> 00:52:36,050
like this so I thought I should at least

1097
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:41,300
address it and I basically basically say

1098
00:52:45,820 --> 00:52:44,210
what I had said earlier that proving

1099
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:45,830
that something is extraterrestrial is

1100
00:52:55,780 --> 00:52:53,570
extremely difficult even even this even

1101
00:52:59,170 --> 00:52:55,790
this data here you know the goal the

1102
00:53:01,840 --> 00:52:59,180
goal of this paper is to start building

1103
00:53:04,390 --> 00:53:01,850
a body of scientific evidence and you

1104
00:53:06,130 --> 00:53:04,400
know so that we can come to some real

1105
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:06,140
understanding of what these things are

1106
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:11,930
and and and do something about the state

1107
00:53:16,150 --> 00:53:13,970
of ignorance that is persisted for over

1108
00:53:18,220 --> 00:53:16,160
seven years I think that's I think

1109
00:53:21,010 --> 00:53:18,230
having being this ignorant about

1110
00:53:24,010 --> 00:53:21,020
something that is now clearly this

1111
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:24,020
important you know shows some level of

1112
00:53:29,470 --> 00:53:25,810
irresponsibility on the part of

1113
00:53:31,930 --> 00:53:29,480
scientists and lawmakers well go ahead

1114
00:53:34,780 --> 00:53:31,940
Frank yeah I just wanted to ask you'd

1115
00:53:37,420 --> 00:53:34,790
said that you are working to model

1116
00:53:39,220 --> 00:53:37,430
dramatic relativistic travelers which

1117
00:53:41,430 --> 00:53:39,230
I'm assuming is going to mean just

1118
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:41,440
basically interstellar travelers and

1119
00:53:45,580 --> 00:53:43,610
eventually have a research paper on that

1120
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:45,590
topic and your goal is to model

1121
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:47,090
different societies with different

1122
00:53:52,109 --> 00:53:49,280
characteristics so I can you tell us a

1123
00:53:55,439 --> 00:53:52,119
little bit about that yeah

1124
00:54:00,120 --> 00:53:55,449
that was a that was based on a talk that

1125
00:54:08,339 --> 00:54:00,130
I gave at SCU in March at the SU meeting

1126
00:54:09,929 --> 00:54:08,349
in March and one of the the the

1127
00:54:12,420 --> 00:54:09,939
difficult there's there several

1128
00:54:14,459 --> 00:54:12,430
difficult aspects here when it comes to

1129
00:54:17,130 --> 00:54:14,469
talking about what we expect

1130
00:54:18,599 --> 00:54:17,140
extraterrestrials to be able to do or

1131
00:54:20,839 --> 00:54:18,609
accomplish when it comes to interest

1132
00:54:25,799 --> 00:54:20,849
teller travel and one of those is that

1133
00:54:29,459 --> 00:54:25,809
we are very heavily biased by science

1134
00:54:32,009 --> 00:54:29,469
fiction and one of the issues in science

1135
00:54:34,469 --> 00:54:32,019
fiction is you want to have a story

1136
00:54:36,329 --> 00:54:34,479
involving people flying from planet to

1137
00:54:38,910 --> 00:54:36,339
planet or star system to star system

1138
00:54:40,650 --> 00:54:38,920
they have to go fly off and beat Darth

1139
00:54:41,939 --> 00:54:40,660
Vader or the Daleks and then they have

1140
00:54:44,759 --> 00:54:41,949
to be able to make it home for dinner

1141
00:54:47,519 --> 00:54:44,769
you know to have a good story so so this

1142
00:54:54,660 --> 00:54:47,529
really requires something like faster

1143
00:54:57,839 --> 00:54:54,670
than light travel and so the assumption

1144
00:54:59,819 --> 00:54:57,849
has become that you really need to have

1145
00:55:04,229 --> 00:54:59,829
faster than light travel to be able to

1146
00:55:05,579 --> 00:55:04,239
travel interstellar distances so the

1147
00:55:08,939 --> 00:55:05,589
fact is that's not actually true

1148
00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:08,949
you can travel slower than the speed of

1149
00:55:15,689 --> 00:55:10,569
light and still travel at interstellar

1150
00:55:18,179 --> 00:55:15,699
distances the and even the the fact is

1151
00:55:21,839 --> 00:55:18,189
that relativity works in your favor the

1152
00:55:24,329 --> 00:55:21,849
faster you go the slower the time

1153
00:55:29,039 --> 00:55:24,339
advances on your spacecraft compared to

1154
00:55:31,049 --> 00:55:29,049
the rest of the galaxy and and so you

1155
00:55:32,849 --> 00:55:31,059
can traverse these distances and

1156
00:55:34,529 --> 00:55:32,859
reasonable periods of time that's the

1157
00:55:36,179 --> 00:55:34,539
traveler can traverse these distances

1158
00:55:38,819 --> 00:55:36,189
and reasonable periods of time whereas

1159
00:55:41,039 --> 00:55:38,829
the people at home this is going to take

1160
00:55:43,679 --> 00:55:41,049
hundreds of years you know to power you

1161
00:55:46,410 --> 00:55:43,689
know many years depending on the

1162
00:55:51,449 --> 00:55:46,420
distances that are traveled so for

1163
00:55:53,459 --> 00:55:51,459
example in the in the paper that I the

1164
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:53,469
MaxEnt paper I actually put up an

1165
00:55:59,549 --> 00:55:56,410
example here where I show what happens

1166
00:56:01,229 --> 00:55:59,559
if you accelerated a thousand G's which

1167
00:56:04,660 --> 00:56:01,239
is still less than what was observed by

1168
00:56:06,460 --> 00:56:04,670
by senior chief day

1169
00:56:09,759 --> 00:56:06,470
but if you have a ship that can

1170
00:56:11,529 --> 00:56:09,769
accelerate it a thousand Gees halfway

1171
00:56:15,009 --> 00:56:11,539
and then you decelerate at a thousand

1172
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:15,019
Gees the other half you can literally

1173
00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:17,410
get to Alpha Centauri in about five days

1174
00:56:23,099 --> 00:56:20,480
now that's five days travel travel time

1175
00:56:25,450 --> 00:56:23,109
for the for the person in the spacecraft

1176
00:56:29,049 --> 00:56:25,460
for everybody else on earth it'll be

1177
00:56:32,210 --> 00:56:29,059
just over four years which is why yeah

1178
00:56:38,370 --> 00:56:32,220
you lean towards the nomadic the nomadic

1179
00:56:42,930 --> 00:56:41,259
at a hundred G acceleration which is

1180
00:56:46,089 --> 00:56:42,940
which is on the low end of what we've

1181
00:56:49,269 --> 00:56:46,099
observed in these cases you can actually

1182
00:56:52,690 --> 00:56:49,279
get across the galaxy in about a hundred

1183
00:56:54,309 --> 00:56:52,700
and twenty days travel time so that's so

1184
00:56:56,650 --> 00:56:54,319
you're talking you're talking four

1185
00:56:59,200 --> 00:56:56,660
months which is faster than we get to

1186
00:57:01,269 --> 00:56:59,210
Mars now so one of these craft

1187
00:57:03,250 --> 00:57:01,279
accelerating 100 G halfway across the

1188
00:57:05,559 --> 00:57:03,260
galaxy and then decelerating our energy

1189
00:57:07,210 --> 00:57:05,569
they can they're going to get up to very

1190
00:57:08,470 --> 00:57:07,220
high percentages of the speed of light

1191
00:57:09,999 --> 00:57:08,480
they're not going to go faster than the

1192
00:57:11,799 --> 00:57:10,009
speed of light but they'll be going fast

1193
00:57:14,349 --> 00:57:11,809
enough that relativity is really kicked

1194
00:57:18,759 --> 00:57:14,359
in and they can actually make it across

1195
00:57:23,470 --> 00:57:18,769
the galaxy in a couple months now for

1196
00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:23,480
the us back home we're gonna say they go

1197
00:57:27,039 --> 00:57:24,880
to the other side of the galaxy

1198
00:57:29,410 --> 00:57:27,049
some eighty thousand light years away

1199
00:57:32,380 --> 00:57:29,420
and then they come back to earth you

1200
00:57:35,259 --> 00:57:32,390
know so for them it's a basically eight

1201
00:57:37,029 --> 00:57:35,269
eight or nine months later for us at

1202
00:57:40,089 --> 00:57:37,039
home it's gonna be a hundred sixty

1203
00:57:43,029 --> 00:57:40,099
thousand years later and you know this

1204
00:57:45,509 --> 00:57:43,039
is you know most scientists know that

1205
00:57:49,269 --> 00:57:45,519
this is how it would work but the

1206
00:57:52,329 --> 00:57:49,279
general belief has been who would do

1207
00:57:53,890 --> 00:57:52,339
this why would you bother because nobody

1208
00:57:56,140 --> 00:57:53,900
on earth is gonna get to find out what

1209
00:58:00,009 --> 00:57:56,150
you learned because you won't be back

1210
00:58:01,329 --> 00:58:00,019
460 thousand years and and you know one

1211
00:58:04,990 --> 00:58:01,339
day when thinking about it I thought

1212
00:58:06,519 --> 00:58:05,000
well you people would do this people

1213
00:58:09,059 --> 00:58:06,529
people are right now signing up for a

1214
00:58:14,109 --> 00:58:09,069
one-way trip to Mars with you know

1215
00:58:15,940 --> 00:58:14,119
people are crazy I wouldn't do it

1216
00:58:17,810 --> 00:58:15,950
personally but I'm sure I could find

1217
00:58:20,870 --> 00:58:17,820
people who would do it

1218
00:58:23,390 --> 00:58:20,880
so but then you could make it work if

1219
00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:23,400
you all went in different directions and

1220
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:25,200
you explored the galaxy and you just met

1221
00:58:28,609 --> 00:58:27,330
back here in eight months you know

1222
00:58:30,050 --> 00:58:28,619
they'd be meeting back here in eight

1223
00:58:31,790 --> 00:58:30,060
months their time but it would be a

1224
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:31,800
hundred sixty thousand years from now

1225
00:58:36,470 --> 00:58:34,410
but but so you would have to give up

1226
00:58:38,450 --> 00:58:36,480
your idea of a home world you don't live

1227
00:58:40,330 --> 00:58:38,460
on a planet anywhere you just travel and

1228
00:58:43,670 --> 00:58:40,340
if you travel all the time you could be

1229
00:58:46,940 --> 00:58:43,680
you could form a nomadic spacefaring

1230
00:58:49,930 --> 00:58:46,950
civilization and pneumatic civilizations

1231
00:58:52,700 --> 00:58:49,940
are rare now on earth but they they are

1232
00:58:54,530 --> 00:58:52,710
they're not non-existent we do have

1233
00:58:56,210 --> 00:58:54,540
pneumatic civilizations still on earth

1234
00:58:59,740 --> 00:58:56,220
and they were more common in the past

1235
00:59:03,140 --> 00:58:59,750
you know so it's it's very reasonable

1236
00:59:04,670 --> 00:59:03,150
Riis very reasonable idea so so what I

1237
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:04,680
what I intended to do for that project

1238
00:59:10,130 --> 00:59:08,130
was to basically model interstellar

1239
00:59:11,810 --> 00:59:10,140
travelers a whole network of interest

1240
00:59:13,270 --> 00:59:11,820
teller travelers that basically travel

1241
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:13,280
with me know and travel and meet up and

1242
00:59:21,380 --> 00:59:18,450
to see if there's a way to arrange meet

1243
00:59:23,540 --> 00:59:21,390
up times and meet up points kind of in

1244
00:59:27,109 --> 00:59:23,550
an organic or natural manner so that you

1245
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:27,119
don't have to pre-plan things and to see

1246
00:59:32,570 --> 00:59:28,770
if there's a way to design a network

1247
00:59:34,790 --> 00:59:32,580
this way and so I've my initial

1248
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:34,800
experiments yes you can do it it does

1249
00:59:39,740 --> 00:59:37,650
seem to work and you know it's very

1250
00:59:45,020 --> 00:59:39,750
possible that somebody may have tried

1251
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:45,030
this and they do this and so so a

1252
00:59:50,089 --> 00:59:46,650
society like this would be really

1253
00:59:51,829 --> 00:59:50,099
interesting because their concept of

1254
00:59:54,140 --> 00:59:51,839
biology would be very different than

1255
00:59:56,210 --> 00:59:54,150
ours they would they would study biology

1256
00:59:58,730 --> 00:59:56,220
on an evolutionary scale you could

1257
01:00:00,140 --> 00:59:58,740
literally fly back and forth from one

1258
01:00:01,820 --> 01:00:00,150
side of the galaxy the other and keep

1259
01:00:03,410 --> 01:00:01,830
coming back to earth and you'd revisit

1260
01:00:06,530 --> 01:00:03,420
it every one hundred sixty thousand

1261
01:00:09,260 --> 01:00:06,540
years so with you know with less than

1262
01:00:11,089 --> 01:00:09,270
one year of your lifetime so so when

1263
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:11,099
you're you know if you live for 50 years

1264
01:00:14,359 --> 01:00:12,690
and you did this you could you could

1265
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:14,369
experience about 12 million years of

1266
01:00:17,049 --> 01:00:15,810
evolution on earth which would be

1267
01:00:22,569 --> 01:00:17,059
fascinating

1268
01:00:24,669 --> 01:00:22,579
I do have some questions from some of

1269
01:00:26,439 --> 01:00:24,679
our listeners here let me go ahead and

1270
01:00:29,529 --> 01:00:26,449
pull them up it'll just take about ten

1271
01:00:33,339 --> 01:00:29,539
seconds one night okay it looks like I

1272
01:00:38,679 --> 01:00:33,349
have a question from a listener who said

1273
01:00:41,859 --> 01:00:38,689
why do et's need crafts at all just

1274
01:00:55,029 --> 01:00:41,869
supposing that there are ETS why would

1275
01:00:56,739 --> 01:00:55,039
they need crafts at all Kevin and do you

1276
01:00:59,459 --> 01:00:56,749
feel it's possible they could be

1277
01:01:02,199 --> 01:00:59,469
altering the future is another question

1278
01:01:04,809 --> 01:01:02,209
we alter the future I mean that's what

1279
01:01:07,209 --> 01:01:04,819
the future is so I don't know exactly

1280
01:01:09,699 --> 01:01:07,219
where they would question who would be

1281
01:01:11,979 --> 01:01:09,709
going with that right thank you so much

1282
01:01:15,429 --> 01:01:11,989
for having answered that and then I also

1283
01:01:18,069 --> 01:01:15,439
wanted to bring up you talked about

1284
01:01:19,719 --> 01:01:18,079
relativity the general theory of

1285
01:01:21,249 --> 01:01:19,729
relativity and when it would kick in can

1286
01:01:23,380 --> 01:01:21,259
you go over that concept a little bit

1287
01:01:28,799 --> 01:01:23,390
more regarding interstellar travel

1288
01:01:32,169 --> 01:01:28,809
please right so the the idea is that

1289
01:01:35,909 --> 01:01:32,179
time and lengths are observer based it

1290
01:01:38,769 --> 01:01:35,919
depends on who's looking at them so if

1291
01:01:40,599 --> 01:01:38,779
you take a meter stick with a clock on

1292
01:01:42,069 --> 01:01:40,609
it and you shoot that meter stick with a

1293
01:01:44,469 --> 01:01:42,079
clock past me it's very close to the

1294
01:01:46,059 --> 01:01:44,479
speed of light I'm going to measure the

1295
01:01:47,859 --> 01:01:46,069
length of that meter stick as being very

1296
01:01:50,319 --> 01:01:47,869
short it's gonna actually shrink in

1297
01:01:53,679 --> 01:01:50,329
length and the clock will move much more

1298
01:01:55,599 --> 01:01:53,689
slowly now conversely if you're writing

1299
01:01:57,099 --> 01:01:55,609
on that meter stick and I'm holding and

1300
01:01:58,449 --> 01:01:57,109
you look at me who's holding your clock

1301
01:02:00,309 --> 01:01:58,459
in a meter stick you'll see that my

1302
01:02:04,449 --> 01:02:00,319
meter stick is shortened and my clock is

1303
01:02:05,859 --> 01:02:04,459
going more slowly so when it comes to

1304
01:02:07,359 --> 01:02:05,869
interstellar travel you have two

1305
01:02:09,009 --> 01:02:07,369
different perspectives you can consider

1306
01:02:11,349 --> 01:02:09,019
you can consider the perspective of the

1307
01:02:12,789 --> 01:02:11,359
traveller or you can consider the

1308
01:02:16,569 --> 01:02:12,799
perspective of the people staying at

1309
01:02:18,039 --> 01:02:16,579
home on earth or wherever from the

1310
01:02:20,169 --> 01:02:18,049
perspective of people on earth

1311
01:02:22,479 --> 01:02:20,179
you know I fly off to Alpha Centauri at

1312
01:02:25,959 --> 01:02:22,489
90% the speed of light they're going to

1313
01:02:28,029 --> 01:02:25,969
see my clock moving very slowly so of

1314
01:02:30,219 --> 01:02:28,039
course I make it there in a short period

1315
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:30,229
of time by my clock so it doesn't seem

1316
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:31,010
very

1317
01:02:35,220 --> 01:02:32,330
so the traveler can make it there

1318
01:02:37,630 --> 01:02:35,230
because their time is going more slowly

1319
01:02:39,730 --> 01:02:37,640
from the perspective the traveler

1320
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:39,740
the time is going normally but the

1321
01:02:43,630 --> 01:02:41,930
because they're moving so fast the

1322
01:02:45,460 --> 01:02:43,640
length lengths are shortened so the

1323
01:02:49,060 --> 01:02:45,470
distance between themselves and Alpha

1324
01:02:52,210 --> 01:02:49,070
Centauri actually shrinks and they then

1325
01:02:53,890 --> 01:02:52,220
don't have as far to travel from their

1326
01:02:57,010 --> 01:02:53,900
perspective and that's basically how

1327
01:02:58,780 --> 01:02:57,020
those two perspectives are different but

1328
01:03:00,340 --> 01:02:58,790
they both lead to the same results they

1329
01:03:03,130 --> 01:03:00,350
both lead to the same result of the

1330
01:03:06,849 --> 01:03:03,140
traveler making it a short period of

1331
01:03:09,030 --> 01:03:06,859
time I noticed in constraints on

1332
01:03:12,580 --> 01:03:09,040
breakaway societies engaged in relative

1333
01:03:15,940 --> 01:03:12,590
relativistic interstellar travel the

1334
01:03:18,670 --> 01:03:15,950
paper that will actually the I guess was

1335
01:03:21,430 --> 01:03:18,680
a presentation that she did wanted to

1336
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:21,440
know that you brought up I can never say

1337
01:03:24,730 --> 01:03:23,570
the scientists name correctly so you'll

1338
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:24,740
have to correct me please

1339
01:03:32,710 --> 01:03:27,410
it's dr. you know Frank I have a problem

1340
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:32,720
saying dr. miss you cook okay thank you

1341
01:03:38,530 --> 01:03:34,850
I always it always ends up sounding like

1342
01:03:39,580 --> 01:03:38,540
a wild bird who can never say his name

1343
01:03:41,140 --> 01:03:39,590
right thank you

1344
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:41,150
I noticed that she brought up a paper

1345
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:43,250
that he wrote which is the physics of

1346
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:45,650
interstellar travel how did his paper

1347
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:48,890
well his essay on that how did that the

1348
01:03:53,130 --> 01:03:50,690
article he wrote on that topic how did

1349
01:03:56,260 --> 01:03:53,140
it impact you and why was it a good

1350
01:03:57,790 --> 01:03:56,270
article I think I think I brought it up

1351
01:04:00,940 --> 01:03:57,800
because he made the point that

1352
01:04:03,070 --> 01:04:00,950
relativity works in your favor and I you

1353
01:04:07,210 --> 01:04:03,080
don't often hear scientists admitting to

1354
01:04:09,010 --> 01:04:07,220
that whether they're not generally aware

1355
01:04:13,590 --> 01:04:09,020
or realize that I don't know what the

1356
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:13,600
situation is but but he but he actually

1357
01:04:17,500 --> 01:04:16,250
highlighted that fact that relativity

1358
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:17,510
works in your favor and it's he's

1359
01:04:23,590 --> 01:04:21,410
absolutely correct but he didn't go that

1360
01:04:25,540 --> 01:04:23,600
next step in that he stalled out

1361
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:25,550
basically where most other people have

1362
01:04:29,500 --> 01:04:28,250
where he said but for everybody back on

1363
01:04:31,870 --> 01:04:29,510
earth it's still going to take a long

1364
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:31,880
period of time so why bother nobody who

1365
01:04:37,660 --> 01:04:35,210
would do this and I think that's the

1366
01:04:41,020 --> 01:04:37,670
that's a short sightedness on our part

1367
01:04:42,550 --> 01:04:41,030
not considering that now somebody wants

1368
01:04:43,900 --> 01:04:42,560
to do it we'll make it happen we'll find

1369
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:43,910
a way to do it you'll find a way to do

1370
01:04:48,070 --> 01:04:46,250
it comfortably right and I'm glad you

1371
01:04:51,250 --> 01:04:48,080
brought up the idea of doing something

1372
01:04:53,710 --> 01:04:51,260
like that comfortably because I wanted

1373
01:04:56,589 --> 01:04:53,720
to know what kind of materials do you

1374
01:04:59,890 --> 01:04:56,599
feel hypothetically could be involved in

1375
01:05:04,870 --> 01:04:59,900
building a ship to be able to handle

1376
01:05:07,859 --> 01:05:04,880
going to an interstellar point this is

1377
01:05:11,050 --> 01:05:07,869
this is where we go from talking about

1378
01:05:13,210 --> 01:05:11,060
physical possibility to an engineering

1379
01:05:14,710 --> 01:05:13,220
possible to an engineering possibility

1380
01:05:16,740 --> 01:05:14,720
whether whether you whether you could

1381
01:05:18,849 --> 01:05:16,750
actually engineer something like this

1382
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:18,859
so saying something is physically

1383
01:05:23,859 --> 01:05:20,330
possible means that the laws of physics

1384
01:05:25,930 --> 01:05:23,869
don't stop you from doing it whether you

1385
01:05:29,470 --> 01:05:25,940
can engineer something that will work is

1386
01:05:32,829 --> 01:05:29,480
the this is the next problem and the the

1387
01:05:35,950 --> 01:05:32,839
the the biggest problems are our

1388
01:05:37,450 --> 01:05:35,960
radiation you're basically going to have

1389
01:05:39,550 --> 01:05:37,460
all the lights going to be blue-shifted

1390
01:05:41,050 --> 01:05:39,560
into x-rays and gamma-rays so you're

1391
01:05:41,730 --> 01:05:41,060
gonna be bombarded with x-rays and

1392
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:41,740
gamma-rays

1393
01:05:49,300 --> 01:05:46,730
you're going to because for the traveler

1394
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:49,310
that the distances are shortened and the

1395
01:05:53,260 --> 01:05:51,650
distances shrink that means that the

1396
01:05:55,329 --> 01:05:53,270
hydrogen gas in interstellar space

1397
01:05:57,370 --> 01:05:55,339
interstellar space is not empty you've

1398
01:06:01,750 --> 01:05:57,380
got about one hydrogen atom per cubic

1399
01:06:03,579 --> 01:06:01,760
meter so so once you shrink that

1400
01:06:06,250 --> 01:06:03,589
distance you're basically turning empty

1401
01:06:07,810 --> 01:06:06,260
space into a to a wall of hydrogen gas

1402
01:06:10,570 --> 01:06:07,820
that you've got to fly through at 90%

1403
01:06:14,370 --> 01:06:10,580
the speed of light and that's gonna tear

1404
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:14,380
any ship to shreds and in no time so you

1405
01:06:19,660 --> 01:06:17,330
really have to work on shielding and

1406
01:06:22,359 --> 01:06:19,670
coming up with ways to handle shielding

1407
01:06:24,099 --> 01:06:22,369
and that I would have no idea how to do

1408
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:24,109
there's there have been a few papers

1409
01:06:36,550 --> 01:06:34,250
that I think I've I've referenced oh I

1410
01:06:39,690 --> 01:06:36,560
think I referenced on those slides in

1411
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:39,700
the that talk I talked about a

1412
01:06:44,950 --> 01:06:42,410
traveler's scale of speeds at which

1413
01:06:46,690 --> 01:06:44,960
travelers can travel I'm actually gonna

1414
01:06:48,940 --> 01:06:46,700
pull it up on my computer so I can

1415
01:06:58,300 --> 01:06:48,950
oh good yeah forget what I'm talking

1416
01:07:02,890 --> 01:06:58,310
about go pre Tom yes I had come up with

1417
01:07:05,430 --> 01:07:02,900
a scale for a traveler's scale I didn't

1418
01:07:07,900 --> 01:07:05,440
find the the Kardashev scale which is

1419
01:07:12,550 --> 01:07:07,910
unfortunately Nikolai Kardashev passed

1420
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:12,560
away the other day I'm sorry yeah but he

1421
01:07:16,930 --> 01:07:14,650
developed a scale that describes

1422
01:07:20,319 --> 01:07:16,940
civilizations as using certain months of

1423
01:07:25,530 --> 01:07:20,329
energy but I I came up with a scale of

1424
01:07:31,510 --> 01:07:25,540
traveller classes and there's a few

1425
01:07:35,620 --> 01:07:31,520
there's a few papers by semyonov I think

1426
01:07:38,410 --> 01:07:35,630
he's maybe at SUNY Stony Brook semyonov

1427
01:07:40,420 --> 01:07:38,420
but he has a paper on radiation hazards

1428
01:07:42,550 --> 01:07:40,430
of relativistic interstellar flight and

1429
01:07:46,599 --> 01:07:42,560
he talks about the shielding that would

1430
01:07:48,460 --> 01:07:46,609
be necessary so so for below 30% the

1431
01:07:49,810 --> 01:07:48,470
speed of light at titanium or aluminum

1432
01:07:50,349 --> 01:07:49,820
hull of one to two centimeters in

1433
01:07:52,690 --> 01:07:50,359
thickness

1434
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:52,700
provides sufficient protection against

1435
01:07:59,559 --> 01:07:56,290
the flow of oncoming nucleonic radiation

1436
01:08:01,540 --> 01:07:59,569
but you're going to have a decoration of

1437
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:01,550
the front part of the hull caused by

1438
01:08:06,190 --> 01:08:04,130
intense micro meteorite bombardment with

1439
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:06,200
rate exceeding 100 relativistic dust

1440
01:08:09,970 --> 01:08:07,970
particles per square meter per second

1441
01:08:13,540 --> 01:08:09,980
greater than 30% of the speed of light

1442
01:08:19,329 --> 01:08:13,550
so things just get nastier is the faster

1443
01:08:23,050 --> 01:08:19,339
you go once you get above 70% the speed

1444
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:23,060
of light hitting having a proton hitting

1445
01:08:27,820 --> 01:08:25,250
your spaceship actually creates

1446
01:08:29,289 --> 01:08:27,830
particles so I mean you basically it's

1447
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:29,299
like you're flying through a particle

1448
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:32,330
accelerator at that point so so the

1449
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:34,930
engineering would be very challenging

1450
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:39,410
now the question is whether you can so

1451
01:08:42,999 --> 01:08:41,330
here I'm talking about travelers who are

1452
01:08:46,269 --> 01:08:43,009
traveling at relativistic speeds using

1453
01:08:48,610 --> 01:08:46,279
you know conventional ways of moving

1454
01:08:52,660 --> 01:08:48,620
which is what you know I really only

1455
01:08:55,630 --> 01:08:52,670
considered in both of these talks if you

1456
01:08:57,999 --> 01:08:55,640
consider doing something like warping

1457
01:08:59,399 --> 01:08:58,009
space-time then you're then you're

1458
01:09:01,379 --> 01:08:59,409
playing a different game

1459
01:09:03,599 --> 01:09:01,389
changes and that's a different type of

1460
01:09:08,129 --> 01:09:03,609
engineering but that would require other

1461
01:09:11,519 --> 01:09:08,139
technology okay Kevin and this might

1462
01:09:13,469 --> 01:09:11,529
sound a little rap random but you did

1463
01:09:17,219 --> 01:09:13,479
say that there are serious implications

1464
01:09:19,829 --> 01:09:17,229
for the Fermi paradox since at any point

1465
01:09:22,140 --> 01:09:19,839
in time it is far more likely that any

1466
01:09:25,140 --> 01:09:22,150
given ship will be travelling to its

1467
01:09:31,829 --> 01:09:25,150
next destination and could you please

1468
01:09:34,140 --> 01:09:31,839
touch upon that topic travelers who are

1469
01:09:35,609 --> 01:09:34,150
traveling at relativistic speeds so

1470
01:09:38,729 --> 01:09:35,619
you're not talking about faster than

1471
01:09:40,979 --> 01:09:38,739
light travel then you know for those of

1472
01:09:42,719 --> 01:09:40,989
us at home it still takes hundreds of

1473
01:09:45,509 --> 01:09:42,729
years for a spacecraft to get anywhere

1474
01:09:48,359 --> 01:09:45,519
so it's if you're traveling hundreds of

1475
01:09:50,189 --> 01:09:48,369
light-years so where where do you expect

1476
01:09:52,019 --> 01:09:50,199
to find everybody well they're all

1477
01:09:53,159 --> 01:09:52,029
traveling that's basically where they

1478
01:09:55,020 --> 01:09:53,169
are that's where they spend most of

1479
01:09:56,669 --> 01:09:55,030
their time this spend hundreds of years

1480
01:09:58,259 --> 01:09:56,679
traveling and they'll probably hang out

1481
01:10:00,359 --> 01:09:58,269
on your planet for even if they play

1482
01:10:02,189 --> 01:10:00,369
even if they hang out on your planet for

1483
01:10:03,750 --> 01:10:02,199
a year they're still only spending one

1484
01:10:05,029 --> 01:10:03,760
percent of their time on a planet with

1485
01:10:07,049 --> 01:10:05,039
respect you know from your perspective

1486
01:10:08,729 --> 01:10:07,059
now from their perspective they're

1487
01:10:11,069 --> 01:10:08,739
spending most of their time on planets

1488
01:10:13,500 --> 01:10:11,079
but but from our perspective they're all

1489
01:10:15,270 --> 01:10:13,510
traveling that's so that would that

1490
01:10:16,649 --> 01:10:15,280
would be a possible solution to the

1491
01:10:23,549 --> 01:10:16,659
Fermi partnered paradox where is

1492
01:10:24,569 --> 01:10:23,559
everybody their only transit yeah okay

1493
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:24,579
so I'd like to get a little bit more

1494
01:10:28,500 --> 01:10:26,650
personal about this topic because it's a

1495
01:10:30,569 --> 01:10:28,510
fascinating topic and I want to know

1496
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:30,579
when did you first hear about the Fermi

1497
01:10:41,669 --> 01:10:37,449
paradox and why do you care about it I

1498
01:10:44,629 --> 01:10:41,679
don't really care about it that much

1499
01:10:52,949 --> 01:10:48,779
it's only a paradox if you assume that

1500
01:10:55,350 --> 01:10:52,959
nobody has been here we don't know that

1501
01:10:57,120 --> 01:10:55,360
for sure because we've not studied it so

1502
01:10:58,319 --> 01:10:57,130
nobody knows whether anybody's been here

1503
01:11:01,500 --> 01:10:58,329
before because it's not been

1504
01:11:03,359 --> 01:11:01,510
scientifically studied by anyone so you

1505
01:11:08,159 --> 01:11:03,369
can't say it's a paradox that's not a

1506
01:11:09,569 --> 01:11:08,169
really appropriate stay yeah just up for

1507
01:11:12,149 --> 01:11:09,579
a little bit of background on the Fermi

1508
01:11:12,910 --> 01:11:12,159
paradox it it is it I think it's a

1509
01:11:16,860 --> 01:11:12,920
presented

1510
01:11:20,650 --> 01:11:16,870
it's a much more how can I put it

1511
01:11:22,990 --> 01:11:20,660
studied sort of a formalized thing when

1512
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:23,000
in fact it was really I just came about

1513
01:11:29,169 --> 01:11:26,210
from a conversation that at lunch among

1514
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:29,179
a few scientists including Fermi Edward

1515
01:11:31,450 --> 01:11:31,010
Teller and some others as well right

1516
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:31,460
sorry

1517
01:11:35,050 --> 01:11:33,050
that's right there was just that kicking

1518
01:11:36,939 --> 01:11:35,060
some ideas around at lunch basically and

1519
01:11:39,490 --> 01:11:36,949
it turned into something a little bit

1520
01:11:42,430 --> 01:11:39,500
more than that I mean except except he

1521
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:42,440
was very good at making important

1522
01:11:49,270 --> 01:11:45,890
teaching points from seemingly innocuous

1523
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:49,280
statements so he you know so you could

1524
01:11:55,150 --> 01:11:52,810
look at it that way in which in which

1525
01:11:58,660 --> 01:11:55,160
consider what is the teaching well

1526
01:12:01,209 --> 01:11:58,670
that's you know what's the teaching

1527
01:12:04,540 --> 01:12:01,219
point that yeah there ought to be aliens

1528
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:04,550
here we should look for them is that the

1529
01:12:08,620 --> 01:12:06,170
teaching point or is the teaching point

1530
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:08,630
that maybe there's a reason they can't

1531
01:12:13,900 --> 01:12:10,730
get here and we should think about that

1532
01:12:16,390 --> 01:12:13,910
so I wanted to bring up metamaterial

1533
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:16,400
research which is interdisciplinary and

1534
01:12:21,130 --> 01:12:18,770
involves fields such as electrical

1535
01:12:23,290 --> 01:12:21,140
engineering electro magnetics classical

1536
01:12:25,450 --> 01:12:23,300
optics solid state physics microwave and

1537
01:12:27,430 --> 01:12:25,460
antenna engineering optoelectronics

1538
01:12:29,650 --> 01:12:27,440
material sciences nanoscience and

1539
01:12:32,260 --> 01:12:29,660
semiconductor engineering do you think

1540
01:12:34,750 --> 01:12:32,270
that metamaterials has anything to do

1541
01:12:36,610 --> 01:12:34,760
with the building of a ship and I do by

1542
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:36,620
the way let me before I finish that

1543
01:12:41,229 --> 01:12:39,170
question I still have more another

1544
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:41,239
question for you about that topic

1545
01:12:46,570 --> 01:12:44,090
metamaterials do you think that meta

1546
01:12:57,010 --> 01:12:46,580
materials would be required in order to

1547
01:12:59,169 --> 01:12:57,020
build a ship to go interstellar material

1548
01:13:04,720 --> 01:12:59,179
seem to be useful for a great many

1549
01:13:06,790 --> 01:13:04,730
things so maybe for the technology on

1550
01:13:07,900 --> 01:13:06,800
the ship it's possible but anyway I

1551
01:13:10,630 --> 01:13:07,910
wanted to ask you

1552
01:13:12,910 --> 01:13:10,640
metamaterials is such a hot topic it's

1553
01:13:16,090 --> 01:13:12,920
trending in the UFO community probably

1554
01:13:17,950 --> 01:13:16,100
all year part of last year it's probably

1555
01:13:19,419 --> 01:13:17,960
been talked about a lot longer but I

1556
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:19,429
mean as far as trending and everybody

1557
01:13:23,350 --> 01:13:21,170
talking about it what are your thoughts

1558
01:13:26,650 --> 01:13:23,360
on that topic regarding meta materials

1559
01:13:29,440 --> 01:13:26,660
and the UFO topic

1560
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:29,450
I think it's too early to jump to any

1561
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:32,090
conclusions I think that we would do

1562
01:13:36,850 --> 01:13:34,610
best by keeping all the hypotheses on

1563
01:13:39,910 --> 01:13:36,860
the table until we have data to rule

1564
01:13:42,610 --> 01:13:39,920
some out or to really support some you

1565
01:13:44,140 --> 01:13:42,620
know we have there are some materials

1566
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:44,150
floating around that are purported to be

1567
01:13:49,150 --> 01:13:46,250
whole material from some of these

1568
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:49,160
objects and these things are look like

1569
01:13:54,490 --> 01:13:51,530
they're meta materials some of them are

1570
01:13:58,510 --> 01:13:54,500
layered nano layers of magnesium and

1571
01:14:01,620 --> 01:13:58,520
bismuth and that's interesting these

1572
01:14:05,710 --> 01:14:01,630
things have interesting properties and

1573
01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:05,720
whether they are you know important or

1574
01:14:11,500 --> 01:14:08,510
central I don't think is known yet it's

1575
01:14:13,030 --> 01:14:11,510
also not known it's also not been proved

1576
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:13,040
that those are actually home materials

1577
01:14:18,430 --> 01:14:16,130
from actual craft you know these you

1578
01:14:20,590 --> 01:14:18,440
know one case these materials were just

1579
01:14:25,090 --> 01:14:20,600
worse you know sent to an investigative

1580
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:25,100
you know reporter and and until we know

1581
01:14:28,180 --> 01:14:26,570
where they came from and we can actually

1582
01:14:29,860 --> 01:14:28,190
look at the craft and look at the

1583
01:14:31,630 --> 01:14:29,870
equipment in the craft and know where

1584
01:14:33,790 --> 01:14:31,640
the how the craft was collected what

1585
01:14:35,910 --> 01:14:33,800
happened to it I think it's very

1586
01:14:41,230 --> 01:14:35,920
difficult to say anything definitively

1587
01:14:44,430 --> 01:14:41,240
okay and now our TTS say has a project

1588
01:14:47,020 --> 01:14:44,440
called the atom research project and

1589
01:14:50,610 --> 01:14:47,030
what they do is they focus in on

1590
01:14:54,580 --> 01:14:50,620
studying exotic materials for technology

1591
01:14:58,390 --> 01:14:54,590
innovation do you have any opinions on

1592
01:15:02,610 --> 01:14:58,400
that at all yes I think it's great

1593
01:15:08,290 --> 01:15:05,950
which is an important thing to do I good

1594
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:08,300
I find it frustrating when I see

1595
01:15:12,580 --> 01:15:09,770
professional scientists making

1596
01:15:14,100 --> 01:15:12,590
professional statements without having

1597
01:15:16,570 --> 01:15:14,110
done their homework and I think that's

1598
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:16,580
you know I know I saw a video where

1599
01:15:20,290 --> 01:15:18,890
Stanton Freeman you know expressed his

1600
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:20,300
frustration with this and I share that

1601
01:15:25,180 --> 01:15:23,210
frustration and I'm glad to see

1602
01:15:27,790 --> 01:15:25,190
scientists doing what they do best study

1603
01:15:29,170 --> 01:15:27,800
it well let me once you once you've

1604
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:29,180
learned something tell us what you

1605
01:15:33,100 --> 01:15:31,250
learned let me jump in real quick

1606
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:33,110
professor and ask you this well let's

1607
01:15:38,440 --> 01:15:35,090
say that that your friend Joey had

1608
01:15:40,270 --> 01:15:38,450
during his sighting picked up a fragment

1609
01:15:43,899 --> 01:15:40,280
they this fell off the UFO

1610
01:15:45,580 --> 01:15:43,909
that I saw Kevin and if you got your

1611
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:45,590
hands on something like that from a

1612
01:15:59,010 --> 01:15:48,530
source that you find credible what would

1613
01:16:04,000 --> 01:15:59,020
you do with it or you know and look for

1614
01:16:07,660 --> 01:16:04,010
look for the look for the isotope ratios

1615
01:16:09,430 --> 01:16:07,670
I use Raman spectroscopy and look and

1616
01:16:11,589 --> 01:16:09,440
see if there's carbon nanotubes or any

1617
01:16:13,029 --> 01:16:11,599
organics present there's a lot of things

1618
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:13,039
you could do and it would be a great fun

1619
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:15,650
and I and in fact I'm in contact with

1620
01:16:20,020 --> 01:16:18,530
two separate individuals at this point

1621
01:16:22,180 --> 01:16:20,030
and we're discussing you know the

1622
01:16:25,689 --> 01:16:22,190
possibility of me looking at some of

1623
01:16:27,069 --> 01:16:25,699
this some of this materials so that's an

1624
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:27,079
exciting thing to do I think it's

1625
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:28,610
something that we scientists ought to be

1626
01:16:36,279 --> 01:16:33,770
doing and and that's that's important

1627
01:16:38,649 --> 01:16:36,289
it'll add to the body of evidence that

1628
01:16:41,020 --> 01:16:38,659
we'll have to slowly build up as we

1629
01:16:43,750 --> 01:16:41,030
slowly come to terms and understand what

1630
01:16:45,189 --> 01:16:43,760
these things actually are yeah and I'm

1631
01:16:46,359 --> 01:16:45,199
glad you brought up the word evidence

1632
01:16:48,069 --> 01:16:46,369
although I know it's been used

1633
01:16:53,709 --> 01:16:48,079
frequently throughout this discussion

1634
01:16:57,189 --> 01:16:53,719
off and on the idea of evidence facts

1635
01:17:00,729 --> 01:16:57,199
and proof and then let's just throw in

1636
01:17:03,069 --> 01:17:00,739
for good measure what is good data so

1637
01:17:06,430 --> 01:17:03,079
those four things can you please tell us

1638
01:17:13,450 --> 01:17:06,440
in your world of science what do facts

1639
01:17:16,930 --> 01:17:13,460
evidence good data and proof mean well

1640
01:17:18,790 --> 01:17:16,940
you know facts facts facts are facts or

1641
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:18,800
things you know and you know and

1642
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:21,050
evidences is closely related to this

1643
01:17:25,689 --> 01:17:23,570
evidence is something usually based on

1644
01:17:31,359 --> 01:17:25,699
something that you can measure or have

1645
01:17:36,310 --> 01:17:31,369
measured good data is data that allows

1646
01:17:39,100 --> 01:17:36,320
you to make rather definitive inferences

1647
01:17:41,229 --> 01:17:39,110
from the data alone so so if you have

1648
01:17:43,689 --> 01:17:41,239
and that's basically what we mean by

1649
01:17:46,569 --> 01:17:43,699
good data so when you have sufficient

1650
01:17:47,950 --> 01:17:46,579
data that you can make the inferences

1651
01:17:51,189 --> 01:17:47,960
you want to and say something definitive

1652
01:17:54,209 --> 01:17:51,199
about whatever you're studying based on

1653
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:54,219
that data that's good data

1654
01:18:00,000 --> 01:17:56,410
it's usually not the case that your date

1655
01:18:03,590 --> 01:18:00,010
is very good and and a lot of times in

1656
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:03,600
science you were you are working with

1657
01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:05,890
you know what you mean by good data

1658
01:18:12,330 --> 01:18:08,770
changes so I also work with exoplanet

1659
01:18:15,030 --> 01:18:12,340
detection and and in that case we've

1660
01:18:18,060 --> 01:18:15,040
taken data from the Kepler space

1661
01:18:19,650 --> 01:18:18,070
telescope that I think you put a picture

1662
01:18:21,810 --> 01:18:19,660
up earlier that showed you know the

1663
01:18:24,950 --> 01:18:21,820
Kepler looking up at the sky near the

1664
01:18:26,850 --> 01:18:24,960
constellation of Lyra and such and

1665
01:18:30,390 --> 01:18:26,860
basically the Kepler space telescope

1666
01:18:32,580 --> 01:18:30,400
would watch stars for several years and

1667
01:18:37,050 --> 01:18:32,590
basically record their light intensities

1668
01:18:40,410 --> 01:18:37,060
know when you have periodic decreases in

1669
01:18:45,060 --> 01:18:40,420
light intensity you can use that to

1670
01:18:47,310 --> 01:18:45,070
infer the presence of planets now if you

1671
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:47,320
aren't knowledgeable about how planets

1672
01:18:52,979 --> 01:18:50,650
orbit stars you could argue that that's

1673
01:18:55,740 --> 01:18:52,989
really pretty horrible data and horrible

1674
01:18:57,090 --> 01:18:55,750
evidence for a planet because what if

1675
01:18:57,780 --> 01:18:57,100
there are sunspots what if it's

1676
01:18:59,580 --> 01:18:57,790
something else

1677
01:19:01,680 --> 01:18:59,590
you know and and sometimes that happens

1678
01:19:04,830 --> 01:19:01,690
you know sometimes we need data from

1679
01:19:09,090 --> 01:19:04,840
another source so very often that's

1680
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:09,100
actually why we have two categories you

1681
01:19:13,590 --> 01:19:11,170
have exoplanet candidates and then you

1682
01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:13,600
have discovered exoplanets and they're

1683
01:19:18,570 --> 01:19:16,570
different candidates are exoplanets that

1684
01:19:20,910 --> 01:19:18,580
have been detected using one imaging

1685
01:19:22,770 --> 01:19:20,920
modality maybe light from Kepler and

1686
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:22,780
then what you would do is you basically

1687
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:24,610
would go and say well let's look at that

1688
01:19:28,410 --> 01:19:26,770
star you know more closely let's record

1689
01:19:31,140 --> 01:19:28,420
spectra from the star and see if we can

1690
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:31,150
detect the star wobbling and perform

1691
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:32,530
what's are called radial velocity

1692
01:19:36,780 --> 01:19:34,930
measurements and then once you've got

1693
01:19:38,790 --> 01:19:36,790
radio velocity data along with the

1694
01:19:40,650 --> 01:19:38,800
Kepler data then you've confirmed that

1695
01:19:43,260 --> 01:19:40,660
there's a planet there you know then

1696
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:43,270
people will feel relatively here that

1697
01:19:50,790 --> 01:19:48,610
yeah it's probably a planet so so those

1698
01:19:54,060 --> 01:19:50,800
are those are those are all difficult

1699
01:19:57,300 --> 01:19:54,070
issues and then in this this topic it's

1700
01:19:58,950 --> 01:19:57,310
extremely difficult you have you're

1701
01:20:01,770 --> 01:19:58,960
studying a phenomenon that you can't

1702
01:20:05,430 --> 01:20:01,780
control and a phenomenon that does not

1703
01:20:10,189 --> 01:20:05,440
happen regularly so it's those are the

1704
01:20:12,150 --> 01:20:10,199
hardest things to study and and

1705
01:20:15,630 --> 01:20:12,160
traditionally these have been very

1706
01:20:18,540 --> 01:20:15,640
difficult areas and I remember back when

1707
01:20:21,570 --> 01:20:18,550
I was at NASA Ames I was in a poster

1708
01:20:23,610 --> 01:20:21,580
session presenting some of my work that

1709
01:20:26,580 --> 01:20:23,620
had been funded by the DDF which was a

1710
01:20:29,130 --> 01:20:26,590
discretionary director's fund we were

1711
01:20:31,709 --> 01:20:29,140
modeling planetary nebula and I was at

1712
01:20:34,110 --> 01:20:31,719
the poster session and the poster next

1713
01:20:35,820 --> 01:20:34,120
to me was from another scientist was

1714
01:20:38,430 --> 01:20:35,830
also funded in the same program his name

1715
01:20:41,130 --> 01:20:38,440
was Friedman Freund and it was a poster

1716
01:20:43,350 --> 01:20:41,140
on earthquake lights and I had never

1717
01:20:44,850 --> 01:20:43,360
heard of earthquake lights so I kind of

1718
01:20:47,010 --> 01:20:44,860
looked at his poster a little bit and

1719
01:20:48,419 --> 01:20:47,020
you know we talked about earthquake

1720
01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:48,429
lights as being lights that appear above

1721
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:51,489
the ground during earthquakes and and

1722
01:20:57,870 --> 01:20:55,210
his poster was mainly on how rocks can

1723
01:20:59,070 --> 01:20:57,880
conduct electricity and under large

1724
01:21:00,900 --> 01:20:59,080
amounts of pressure you have

1725
01:21:03,750 --> 01:21:00,910
piezoelectric effects that create high

1726
01:21:05,370 --> 01:21:03,760
electric fields and such and and you

1727
01:21:07,110 --> 01:21:05,380
know it looks kind of reasonable but I

1728
01:21:10,500 --> 01:21:07,120
kind of was talking to a friend of mine

1729
01:21:12,750 --> 01:21:10,510
and a couple of my other friends came by

1730
01:21:13,890 --> 01:21:12,760
and I said this is an interesting poster

1731
01:21:16,110 --> 01:21:13,900
over here what do you make of this

1732
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:16,120
earthquake light stuff and they were all

1733
01:21:18,959 --> 01:21:17,530
pretty much they putting this at oh

1734
01:21:21,570 --> 01:21:18,969
that's Friedman Fridays

1735
01:21:23,100 --> 01:21:21,580
he's kind of not studying he's been

1736
01:21:24,810 --> 01:21:23,110
going on about earthquake lights for

1737
01:21:26,939 --> 01:21:24,820
years you know people apparently have

1738
01:21:29,220 --> 01:21:26,949
been reporting lights during earthquakes

1739
01:21:30,450 --> 01:21:29,230
you know for centuries and he thinks

1740
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:30,460
they're real things but they're probably

1741
01:21:33,660 --> 01:21:32,170
just psychological people under

1742
01:21:37,350 --> 01:21:33,670
psychological stress from being in an

1743
01:21:38,729 --> 01:21:37,360
earthquake and so you know a couple of

1744
01:21:40,229 --> 01:21:38,739
my friends said all the same thing they

1745
01:21:41,700 --> 01:21:40,239
all thought he was kind of crazy and so

1746
01:21:44,459 --> 01:21:41,710
I went over and talked to him and had

1747
01:21:46,380 --> 01:21:44,469
him give me a walkthrough and you know

1748
01:21:48,090 --> 01:21:46,390
it seemed reasonable to me it didn't

1749
01:21:50,130 --> 01:21:48,100
seem very far out you know he had

1750
01:21:52,890 --> 01:21:50,140
explanations for everything and he

1751
01:21:55,050 --> 01:21:52,900
wanted to study these effects because

1752
01:21:56,580 --> 01:21:55,060
they would you know if you understood

1753
01:21:58,229 --> 01:21:56,590
this then you should be able to detect

1754
01:22:00,390 --> 01:21:58,239
the electric fields before earthquakes

1755
01:22:01,830 --> 01:22:00,400
happen and you could develop earthquake

1756
01:22:04,860 --> 01:22:01,840
detection systems which I would imagine

1757
01:22:06,510 --> 01:22:04,870
people would be interested in but he had

1758
01:22:07,770 --> 01:22:06,520
been unable to get the interest of

1759
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:07,780
anyone from the american geophysical

1760
01:22:13,169 --> 01:22:11,290
union and he was quite frustrated and he

1761
01:22:15,410 --> 01:22:13,179
was quite old already at that time and

1762
01:22:20,300 --> 01:22:15,420
so

1763
01:22:23,690 --> 01:22:20,310
can google earth quake lights and just a

1764
01:22:26,260 --> 01:22:23,700
few years ago there was there were two

1765
01:22:28,340 --> 01:22:26,270
earthquakes back-to-back and the

1766
01:22:30,820 --> 01:22:28,350
security cameras had picked up

1767
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:30,830
earthquake lights in both cases and so

1768
01:22:37,460 --> 01:22:34,410
people became pretty convinced that

1769
01:22:39,710 --> 01:22:37,470
these were real things and so of course

1770
01:22:41,810 --> 01:22:39,720
this hit the news and was all over the

1771
01:22:43,970 --> 01:22:41,820
news and you know who did they go to

1772
01:22:46,250 --> 01:22:43,980
well they went to the only expert in the

1773
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:46,260
world he knew anything about which was

1774
01:22:49,280 --> 01:22:47,730
Friedman Freud and I was really glad to

1775
01:22:51,710 --> 01:22:49,290
see that he was still around to be able

1776
01:22:54,140 --> 01:22:51,720
to enjoy the fact that he was vindicated

1777
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:54,150
he was absolutely right but but the

1778
01:22:57,560 --> 01:22:55,650
problem is how do you study something

1779
01:22:58,730 --> 01:22:57,570
that you can't control you can't he

1780
01:23:00,500 --> 01:22:58,740
doesn't know where the next earthquakes

1781
01:23:02,330 --> 01:23:00,510
gonna be so we can't set up equipment to

1782
01:23:04,130 --> 01:23:02,340
measure these things and that makes it

1783
01:23:08,660 --> 01:23:04,140
very difficult you have to sit on and

1784
01:23:10,970 --> 01:23:08,670
wait until you can get data so you it

1785
01:23:11,900 --> 01:23:10,980
becomes a difficult game I also think

1786
01:23:14,570 --> 01:23:11,910
about it this way I think about

1787
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:14,580
supernovas means we still don't

1788
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:17,210
understand how all supernovas work right

1789
01:23:23,510 --> 01:23:21,570
but we have plenty of evidence that

1790
01:23:26,030 --> 01:23:23,520
there are supernovas however imagine

1791
01:23:28,490 --> 01:23:26,040
that supernovas were maybe a hundred

1792
01:23:31,460 --> 01:23:28,500
times rarer than they are so that you

1793
01:23:33,890 --> 01:23:31,470
would only see them once a century well

1794
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:33,900
you would have we could have gone the

1795
01:23:37,490 --> 01:23:35,370
last hundred years without seeing a

1796
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:37,500
supernova without it being recorded by

1797
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:39,450
you know modern telescopes with CCD

1798
01:23:44,750 --> 01:23:41,850
cameras and do you think astronomers

1799
01:23:47,180 --> 01:23:44,760
would believe in supernovas based on the

1800
01:23:49,940 --> 01:23:47,190
Chinese reports and you know in the year

1801
01:23:52,370 --> 01:23:49,950
1000 that made the Crab Nebula or Tycho

1802
01:23:53,360 --> 01:23:52,380
Brahe his report yeah do you think

1803
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:53,370
scientists would have believed that

1804
01:23:58,310 --> 01:23:55,410
there were such things as supernovas

1805
01:23:59,570 --> 01:23:58,320
based based on that I'm not sure they

1806
01:24:01,120 --> 01:23:59,580
would I don't think they did anybody

1807
01:24:04,100 --> 01:24:01,130
believe it

1808
01:24:06,490 --> 01:24:04,110
so what constitutes good evidence is is

1809
01:24:09,350 --> 01:24:06,500
really difficult and it depends on

1810
01:24:11,480 --> 01:24:09,360
depends greatly on what you know already

1811
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:11,490
you know which depends greatly on your

1812
01:24:15,740 --> 01:24:13,410
models so we have excellent models on

1813
01:24:18,740 --> 01:24:15,750
how planets orbit stars we know all

1814
01:24:20,390 --> 01:24:18,750
about this and so these little light

1815
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:20,400
dimming events that you get come from

1816
01:24:23,569 --> 01:24:22,770
Kepler I think constitute excellent data

1817
01:24:25,129 --> 01:24:23,579
but

1818
01:24:26,930 --> 01:24:25,139
from somebody who doesn't know anything

1819
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:26,940
about planets orbiting stars they would

1820
01:24:34,819 --> 01:24:30,690
think it was pretty crappy data I wanted

1821
01:24:39,500 --> 01:24:34,829
to ask you about quantum physics and do

1822
01:24:44,419 --> 01:24:39,510
you ever have to diss quantum physics or

1823
01:24:49,430 --> 01:24:44,429
any type of quantum subject matter enter

1824
01:24:53,950 --> 01:24:50,649
[Music]

1825
01:24:56,510 --> 01:24:53,960
foundation so basically I work on

1826
01:24:59,419 --> 01:24:56,520
deriving some of the basic laws of

1827
01:25:01,129 --> 01:24:59,429
quantum mechanics order known mainly as

1828
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:01,139
the Fineman rules and the born rule and

1829
01:25:05,390 --> 01:25:02,730
things like this on how you do

1830
01:25:08,390 --> 01:25:05,400
computations in quantum mechanics okay

1831
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:08,400
and then I wanted to know do you feel

1832
01:25:12,919 --> 01:25:11,130
like Einstein had a this might be an

1833
01:25:15,979 --> 01:25:12,929
understatement but a real issue so to

1834
01:25:25,339 --> 01:25:15,989
speak regarding quantum physics was it a

1835
01:25:28,129 --> 01:25:25,349
nightmare for him nobody saw it coming

1836
01:25:33,589 --> 01:25:28,139
so it was it was a surprise to everybody

1837
01:25:35,689 --> 01:25:33,599
and people still struggle with quantum

1838
01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:35,699
mechanics you know professionals still

1839
01:25:38,780 --> 01:25:37,170
start with struggle trying to understand

1840
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:38,790
quantum mechanics so I think it's I

1841
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:41,130
don't you know he had as much trouble as

1842
01:25:46,790 --> 01:25:43,770
anybody else did yeah I actually have a

1843
01:25:49,930 --> 01:25:46,800
wonderful book here called genius about

1844
01:25:53,060 --> 01:25:49,940
the life and science of richard fineman

1845
01:25:57,319 --> 01:25:53,070
yeah one of my favorite books it's very

1846
01:25:59,510 --> 01:25:57,329
well very worn out wanted to ask you do

1847
01:26:01,910 --> 01:25:59,520
you will actually wanted to make a

1848
01:26:05,870 --> 01:26:01,920
comment yeah I was watching a

1849
01:26:08,060 --> 01:26:05,880
documentary on phiman and I I believe he

1850
01:26:11,689 --> 01:26:08,070
said something to the effect of a class

1851
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:11,699
he was teaching about quantum physics he

1852
01:26:14,330 --> 01:26:13,290
kind of laughed because he said we

1853
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:14,340
really don't know what we're talking

1854
01:26:22,250 --> 01:26:18,210
about we don't know how do you feel

1855
01:26:23,660 --> 01:26:22,260
about that that's in some ways that's

1856
01:26:25,370 --> 01:26:23,670
correct I mean we know a lot about

1857
01:26:27,740 --> 01:26:25,380
quantum mechanics and we know we

1858
01:26:29,750 --> 01:26:27,750
certainly know how to use it you know we

1859
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:29,760
know how to mathematically describe

1860
01:26:34,060 --> 01:26:31,170
what's happening we know how to make

1861
01:26:35,959 --> 01:26:34,070
predictions and that's very practical

1862
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:35,969
but

1863
01:26:43,139 --> 01:26:40,050
we don't have a good idea of the

1864
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:43,149
theoretical underpinnings and why those

1865
01:26:47,129 --> 01:26:45,489
mathematical relations should hold in

1866
01:26:49,079 --> 01:26:47,139
those cases and why you should be doing

1867
01:26:51,479 --> 01:26:49,089
the calculations that you do that you

1868
01:26:53,609 --> 01:26:51,489
need to do that's that's where it gets

1869
01:26:55,799 --> 01:26:53,619
to be really difficult so this is a

1870
01:26:58,379 --> 01:26:55,809
quantum entanglement a big part of that

1871
01:27:08,129 --> 01:26:58,389
weirdness and Ric makes it that

1872
01:27:09,540 --> 01:27:08,139
difficult to understand although we're

1873
01:27:12,989 --> 01:27:09,550
not supposed to say that scientists

1874
01:27:15,149 --> 01:27:12,999
scientists that we had we had written

1875
01:27:17,129 --> 01:27:15,159
the paper and two colleagues and me have

1876
01:27:20,669 --> 01:27:17,139
written a paper on deriving the fine

1877
01:27:28,109 --> 01:27:20,679
minerals and sent it to the sensitive

1878
01:27:30,029 --> 01:27:28,119
phys Rev and in the introduction we said

1879
01:27:33,029 --> 01:27:30,039
that quantum mechanics was strange and

1880
01:27:35,159 --> 01:27:33,039
we were scolded by the reviewers for for

1881
01:27:37,109 --> 01:27:35,169
describing any physical theory as

1882
01:27:40,709 --> 01:27:37,119
strange they said that was

1883
01:27:43,290 --> 01:27:40,719
unprofessional but whatever yeah just

1884
01:27:45,359 --> 01:27:43,300
real quick also wear with your with your

1885
01:27:46,229 --> 01:27:45,369
astronomy background we've kept you a

1886
01:27:49,229 --> 01:27:46,239
little longer than we were originally

1887
01:27:52,020 --> 01:27:49,239
planning but those fine things have

1888
01:27:55,259 --> 01:27:52,030
really moved on at a good clip I'd

1889
01:27:59,369 --> 01:27:55,269
posted a story at my UFO group regarding

1890
01:28:03,089 --> 01:27:59,379
at the Big Bang Theory today and it was

1891
01:28:05,369 --> 01:28:03,099
it was asked how do we how do we know

1892
01:28:07,049 --> 01:28:05,379
and I don't really believe the Big Bang

1893
01:28:09,209 --> 01:28:07,059
Theory this is one of the commenters and

1894
01:28:11,639 --> 01:28:09,219
you know I wanted to ask you about the

1895
01:28:13,979 --> 01:28:11,649
the Big Bang Theory yeah basically what

1896
01:28:18,209 --> 01:28:13,989
I think is could be I guess best

1897
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:18,219
described as a theory regarding the the

1898
01:28:22,079 --> 01:28:20,050
beginning of the universe I'm sure

1899
01:28:23,669 --> 01:28:22,089
that's not quite correct but can you go

1900
01:28:25,739 --> 01:28:23,679
into a little bit about that and how do

1901
01:28:33,899 --> 01:28:25,749
how did that the theory come about and

1902
01:28:37,799 --> 01:28:33,909
what there is a based I don't know a

1903
01:28:41,250 --> 01:28:37,809
whole lot about the details the the I

1904
01:28:43,679 --> 01:28:41,260
mean the basic idea is that the galaxies

1905
01:28:46,739 --> 01:28:43,689
are observed to be accelerating away

1906
01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:46,749
from one another and so the universe is

1907
01:28:51,130 --> 01:28:47,930
expanding

1908
01:28:53,500 --> 01:28:51,140
that suggests that it was once much

1909
01:28:57,640 --> 01:28:53,510
smaller that's basically the idea of the

1910
01:29:00,610 --> 01:28:57,650
Big Bang now there's then a whole you

1911
01:29:03,730 --> 01:29:00,620
know the whole field of cosmology works

1912
01:29:07,450 --> 01:29:03,740
on study on studying how our universe

1913
01:29:09,670 --> 01:29:07,460
evolves a lot of this is based on the

1914
01:29:12,250 --> 01:29:09,680
you know the formulation of general

1915
01:29:14,860 --> 01:29:12,260
relativity and how things expand under

1916
01:29:16,810 --> 01:29:14,870
gravity you know how does gravity make

1917
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:16,820
things expand in addition to attract

1918
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:19,730
right this is the the interesting thing

1919
01:29:27,100 --> 01:29:25,010
about the theory and and and then you

1920
01:29:29,320 --> 01:29:27,110
have to worry about what the universe

1921
01:29:30,910 --> 01:29:29,330
was like in the early stages and you

1922
01:29:33,250 --> 01:29:30,920
know we have theories that describe what

1923
01:29:35,710 --> 01:29:33,260
all this should be like and we look at

1924
01:29:38,110 --> 01:29:35,720
the current state of the universe to see

1925
01:29:40,210 --> 01:29:38,120
if that those ideas are actually

1926
01:29:42,610 --> 01:29:40,220
supported with what we think it probably

1927
01:29:43,990 --> 01:29:42,620
looked like earlier so so if you have a

1928
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:44,000
theory of what it looked like in the

1929
01:29:47,530 --> 01:29:45,770
beginning you should have some idea of

1930
01:29:49,780 --> 01:29:47,540
what it looks like now and that's that's

1931
01:29:52,270 --> 01:29:49,790
how you can work to verify these

1932
01:29:54,940 --> 01:29:52,280
theories so so there is a body of

1933
01:29:57,520 --> 01:29:54,950
evidence much you know much greater than

1934
01:29:59,580 --> 01:29:57,530
just the expansion of the you know the

1935
01:30:02,500 --> 01:29:59,590
fact that galaxies are moving apart that

1936
01:30:03,940 --> 01:30:02,510
supports the the idea of the Big Bang

1937
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:03,950
you know another piece of evidence is

1938
01:30:09,460 --> 01:30:07,610
the abundance ratios of the elements the

1939
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:09,470
fact that you know most of the universe

1940
01:30:12,130 --> 01:30:11,210
is hydrogen and then you've got helium

1941
01:30:15,340 --> 01:30:12,140
and and so on

1942
01:30:17,440 --> 01:30:15,350
you know that's but those actual those

1943
01:30:19,630 --> 01:30:17,450
actual ratios are actually predicted by

1944
01:30:22,090 --> 01:30:19,640
the Big Bang Theory as well so as well

1945
01:30:23,950 --> 01:30:22,100
as other pieces of the data before we

1946
01:30:27,940 --> 01:30:23,960
wrap this up I have a question for you

1947
01:30:33,130 --> 01:30:27,950
that has really annoyed a part of the

1948
01:30:38,250 --> 01:30:33,140
UFO community and that is it's sort of a

1949
01:30:41,340 --> 01:30:38,260
rampant bad habit of various groups of

1950
01:30:44,470 --> 01:30:41,350
well some people and some organizations

1951
01:30:48,610 --> 01:30:44,480
who come forward to making claims that

1952
01:30:50,830 --> 01:30:48,620
they have found certain scientific they

1953
01:30:53,170 --> 01:30:50,840
have certain scientific discoveries but

1954
01:30:57,100 --> 01:30:53,180
they never have any scientific data or

1955
01:30:59,050 --> 01:30:57,110
reports to back up their claims so what

1956
01:31:01,570 --> 01:30:59,060
would you what are your thoughts on

1957
01:31:01,870 --> 01:31:01,580
folks who are making claims that they

1958
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:01,880
have

1959
01:31:07,950 --> 01:31:04,130
some kind of scientific breakthrough or

1960
01:31:11,229 --> 01:31:07,960
scientific discovery about some topic

1961
01:31:14,410 --> 01:31:11,239
but they don't have any data or reports

1962
01:31:17,470 --> 01:31:14,420
to back up their claims what does one do

1963
01:31:26,410 --> 01:31:17,480
about that D I mean how do you respond

1964
01:31:30,069 --> 01:31:26,420
to something like that so then let me go

1965
01:31:31,990 --> 01:31:30,079
ahead it's not supported support for

1966
01:31:33,160 --> 01:31:32,000
their statements so then okay let me go

1967
01:31:34,800 --> 01:31:33,170
ahead and narrow it down a little bit

1968
01:31:38,020 --> 01:31:34,810
more I'll give you an example

1969
01:31:42,660 --> 01:31:38,030
TTS a I don't know Frank do you think

1970
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:45,720
where they have actually made claims

1971
01:31:51,580 --> 01:31:49,250
like for example and by the way I'm not

1972
01:31:54,069 --> 01:31:51,590
putting them down I'm just being factual

1973
01:31:56,050 --> 01:31:54,079
Louella is on it for example when he

1974
01:31:58,149 --> 01:31:56,060
went to the SCU this year which is the

1975
01:32:02,020 --> 01:31:58,159
scientific coalition of you APs of a

1976
01:32:04,510 --> 01:32:02,030
study by the way studies he actually did

1977
01:32:09,609 --> 01:32:04,520
a talk on meta materials but he did not

1978
01:32:12,729 --> 01:32:09,619
have any reports or data to back up his

1979
01:32:14,500 --> 01:32:12,739
science to support the the science of

1980
01:32:16,089 --> 01:32:14,510
what he was talking about the scientific

1981
01:32:18,879 --> 01:32:16,099
breakthrough or whatever it was he was

1982
01:32:21,850 --> 01:32:18,889
mentioning and TTS a seems to have a

1983
01:32:23,649 --> 01:32:21,860
pattern of mentioning or teasing the the

1984
01:32:28,839 --> 01:32:23,659
public about things that they might be

1985
01:32:31,390 --> 01:32:28,849
onto or or discovering or you know of is

1986
01:32:34,260 --> 01:32:31,400
something that they're doing research on

1987
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:34,270
but they have no reports to back it up

1988
01:32:42,100 --> 01:32:40,010
do you have any perspective on that yes

1989
01:32:51,819 --> 01:32:42,110
I think this is something I've noticed

1990
01:32:56,979 --> 01:32:51,829
and worried about the I had hoped that

1991
01:33:03,300 --> 01:32:56,989
TTS a would spend some effort performing

1992
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:03,310
scientific research and that involves

1993
01:33:10,540 --> 01:33:05,810
collecting data which they appear to be

1994
01:33:13,510 --> 01:33:10,550
doing and basically then reporting their

1995
01:33:14,740 --> 01:33:13,520
findings and and discussing openly with

1996
01:33:17,410 --> 01:33:14,750
other scientists which

1997
01:33:22,540 --> 01:33:17,420
they're not doing or at least not that

1998
01:33:26,050 --> 01:33:22,550
I've I know about so that was you know

1999
01:33:30,610 --> 01:33:26,060
quite the case when we were at the seu

2000
01:33:34,570 --> 01:33:30,620
meeting we had you know discussions with

2001
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:34,580
many questions where there were answers

2002
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:37,010
unable to be given whether this is going

2003
01:33:45,730 --> 01:33:41,530
to violate you know somebody's

2004
01:33:48,430 --> 01:33:45,740
disclosure agreement or whether it's

2005
01:33:55,870 --> 01:33:48,440
going to disclose too much that's going

2006
01:33:57,820 --> 01:33:55,880
to jeopardize the television show this

2007
01:33:59,140 --> 01:33:57,830
is frustrating because we don't care

2008
01:34:00,820 --> 01:33:59,150
about TV shows we care about

2009
01:34:04,050 --> 01:34:00,830
non-disclosure agreements I understand

2010
01:34:06,730 --> 01:34:04,060
that but but then in that case you

2011
01:34:08,770 --> 01:34:06,740
you're you know what you're the claims

2012
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:08,780
are making are unsupported and that

2013
01:34:12,340 --> 01:34:10,730
they're going to be treated with a grain

2014
01:34:13,870 --> 01:34:12,350
of salt by the scientific community

2015
01:34:16,210 --> 01:34:13,880
because you don't you're not presenting

2016
01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:16,220
evidence and you know we need to see

2017
01:34:22,090 --> 01:34:19,010
evidence we need to see see evidence we

2018
01:34:24,580 --> 01:34:22,100
need to see that the train of logic that

2019
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:24,590
led you you through the analysis and

2020
01:34:27,430 --> 01:34:26,090
allowed you to make the inferences that

2021
01:34:29,860 --> 01:34:27,440
you made from that data that's very

2022
01:34:31,630 --> 01:34:29,870
important and I think that sharing

2023
01:34:33,370 --> 01:34:31,640
information with other scientists is

2024
01:34:36,460 --> 01:34:33,380
paramount in the scientific community

2025
01:34:42,040 --> 01:34:36,470
and this is something that I haven't

2026
01:34:43,330 --> 01:34:42,050
seen tts a really getting involved in

2027
01:34:46,330 --> 01:34:43,340
which I had hoped that they would do

2028
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:46,340
whether this is from their wanting to

2029
01:34:51,220 --> 01:34:48,650
keep things close to their chest you

2030
01:34:54,520 --> 01:34:51,230
know for you know their own gain or

2031
01:34:58,180 --> 01:34:54,530
whether you know it's the whole

2032
01:35:00,100 --> 01:34:58,190
non-disclosure issues resulting from

2033
01:35:01,570 --> 01:35:00,110
people's previous employments I don't

2034
01:35:04,000 --> 01:35:01,580
know what that is or maybe it's just an

2035
01:35:05,620 --> 01:35:04,010
atmosphere of them used to working in a

2036
01:35:07,330 --> 01:35:05,630
situation where they don't share data I

2037
01:35:10,030 --> 01:35:07,340
don't know I don't know precisely what

2038
01:35:12,070 --> 01:35:10,040
the situation but I would really hope

2039
01:35:15,250 --> 01:35:12,080
and I would be very enthused if they

2040
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:15,260
would share more data and be more be

2041
01:35:20,260 --> 01:35:18,170
more open when you get your hands on

2042
01:35:22,060 --> 01:35:20,270
these possibly tea fragments that you

2043
01:35:23,650 --> 01:35:22,070
discussed earlier you'll you'll share

2044
01:35:24,790 --> 01:35:23,660
with us you'll tell us first right oh

2045
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:24,800
yeah

2046
01:35:29,620 --> 01:35:27,890
I haven't signed any non-disclosure

2047
01:35:30,850 --> 01:35:29,630
agreements with anybody I'm gonna I'm

2048
01:35:32,290 --> 01:35:30,860
gonna write up my work and I will

2049
01:35:35,230 --> 01:35:32,300
publish it and I will give you all the

2050
01:35:36,400 --> 01:35:35,240
gory details of the analysis I did you

2051
01:35:44,710 --> 01:35:36,410
know to the point where you can't stand

2052
01:35:46,360 --> 01:35:44,720
it anymore so I asked PTSA not that they

2053
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:46,370
listened I'm not saying that but if I

2054
01:35:53,140 --> 01:35:50,690
publicly asked T TSA to please share any

2055
01:35:55,900 --> 01:35:53,150
reports or anything to back up the

2056
01:35:59,590 --> 01:35:55,910
claims that they're making and I was met

2057
01:36:02,860 --> 01:35:59,600
with such hatred from certain fan groups

2058
01:36:06,820 --> 01:36:02,870
of T TSA that are totally like I guess

2059
01:36:10,360 --> 01:36:06,830
you come fanboys they're totally devoted

2060
01:36:15,700 --> 01:36:10,370
to T TSA which is fine but the reaction

2061
01:36:20,350 --> 01:36:15,710
I got was they were outraged that I

2062
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:20,360
would ask for that and I was told by a

2063
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:23,090
certain person in the UFO community I

2064
01:36:28,690 --> 01:36:25,250
won't mention names that I should feel

2065
01:36:32,430 --> 01:36:28,700
lucky that T TSA has gotten us as far as

2066
01:36:35,950 --> 01:36:32,440
they have regarding the topic of ufology

2067
01:36:38,230 --> 01:36:35,960
because they've progressed and put us in

2068
01:36:40,780 --> 01:36:38,240
a direction much farther head than

2069
01:36:43,750 --> 01:36:40,790
anybody else ever has in the 56 year

2070
01:36:46,240 --> 01:36:43,760
whatever many years you apology has been

2071
01:36:48,210 --> 01:36:46,250
around and leave it at that

2072
01:36:50,620 --> 01:36:48,220
but see that's not that's not

2073
01:36:53,050 --> 01:36:50,630
satisfactory enough for me well it's not

2074
01:36:54,790 --> 01:36:53,060
you know it's fine they can do whatever

2075
01:36:56,410 --> 01:36:54,800
they want you know that's that's the

2076
01:36:57,850 --> 01:36:56,420
truth but they can't call it scientific

2077
01:37:00,640 --> 01:36:57,860
research if they're not going to engage

2078
01:37:02,440 --> 01:37:00,650
the scientific community scientifically

2079
01:37:06,010 --> 01:37:02,450
and that means sharing data sharing

2080
01:37:07,210 --> 01:37:06,020
information and and that and so if

2081
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:07,220
they're not going to do that then it's

2082
01:37:11,830 --> 01:37:09,050
not scientific research and then those

2083
01:37:13,990 --> 01:37:11,840
you know those claims are just wrong and

2084
01:37:16,060 --> 01:37:14,000
I don't think any of us should feel

2085
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:16,070
lucky at this point I'm going to reread

2086
01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:18,650
my response to this statement like that

2087
01:37:23,530 --> 01:37:20,930
is I'm going to reread one of the

2088
01:37:25,720 --> 01:37:23,540
sentences from my conclusion and it is

2089
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:25,730
ironically such attitudes inhibit

2090
01:37:29,440 --> 01:37:27,770
scientific study perpetuate a state of

2091
01:37:32,080 --> 01:37:29,450
ignorance about these phenomena that has

2092
01:37:34,240 --> 01:37:32,090
persisted for well over 70 years and is

2093
01:37:35,339 --> 01:37:34,250
now detrimental since answers are

2094
01:37:37,080 --> 01:37:35,349
presently needed

2095
01:37:39,780 --> 01:37:37,090
there's no reason that we should be

2096
01:37:43,350 --> 01:37:39,790
desired this this ignorant about this

2097
01:37:47,010 --> 01:37:43,360
phenomenon and and this is not safe and

2098
01:37:51,720 --> 01:37:47,020
so I think we need to move past this ok

2099
01:37:52,500 --> 01:37:51,730
so just one last question and then I'll

2100
01:37:55,530 --> 01:37:52,510
leave it alone

2101
01:37:57,450 --> 01:37:55,540
what do we do if TTS a never brings out

2102
01:38:06,629 --> 01:37:57,460
anything to back up the claims that

2103
01:38:08,330 --> 01:38:06,639
they've made what's that because we are

2104
01:38:10,950 --> 01:38:08,340
working to do things properly

2105
01:38:13,200 --> 01:38:10,960
scientifically out in the open where we

2106
01:38:15,359 --> 01:38:13,210
can all learn from this ok thank you

2107
01:38:18,930 --> 01:38:15,369
yeah you had mentioned getting hold

2108
01:38:21,750 --> 01:38:18,940
possibly of that possible eg fragments

2109
01:38:24,030 --> 01:38:21,760
are possible what do you think your

2110
01:38:26,399 --> 01:38:24,040
turnaround time would be before you were

2111
01:38:40,020 --> 01:38:26,409
able to say I should figure out where

2112
01:38:44,010 --> 01:38:40,030
this is problem it depends on all the

2113
01:38:48,629 --> 01:38:44,020
other projects early I do too many

2114
01:38:50,970 --> 01:38:48,639
things so so that's hard to say well I

2115
01:38:51,990 --> 01:38:50,980
thank you so much for your time that's

2116
01:38:54,359 --> 01:38:52,000
tonight

2117
01:38:56,490 --> 01:38:54,369
you know you've actually taken a lot of

2118
01:38:58,979 --> 01:38:56,500
discretionary time to spend with us at

2119
01:39:01,410 --> 01:38:58,989
such a late point in the evening also

2120
01:39:02,280 --> 01:39:01,420
Kevin and Frank did you have any more

2121
01:39:10,020 --> 01:39:02,290
questions

2122
01:39:11,819 --> 01:39:10,030
we are good ok yeah a lovely evening

2123
01:39:15,810 --> 01:39:11,829
it's been very enlightening extremely

2124
01:39:17,819 --> 01:39:15,820
educational and also you know I just

2125
01:39:20,550 --> 01:39:17,829
thank you for allowing us to just ask

2126
01:39:25,680 --> 01:39:20,560
you any question he's been just so kind

2127
01:39:27,209 --> 01:39:25,690
in allowing us just the luxury of being

2128
01:39:29,490 --> 01:39:27,219
able to spend this kind of time with you

2129
01:39:30,990 --> 01:39:29,500
so thank you so much thank you so much

2130
01:39:32,370 --> 01:39:31,000
for having me I really appreciate it

2131
01:39:34,700 --> 01:39:32,380
myself as well

2132
01:39:36,959 --> 01:39:34,710
and before we go I did want to ask you

2133
01:39:39,450 --> 01:39:36,969
where are you gonna go this year getting

2134
01:39:41,250 --> 01:39:39,460
you any talks I'd like to at least let

2135
01:39:42,930 --> 01:39:41,260
our listeners know if you're going to

2136
01:39:45,180 --> 01:39:42,940
travel anywhere to do any talks on

2137
01:39:46,830 --> 01:39:45,190
anything and if you are where are you

2138
01:39:48,959 --> 01:39:46,840
gonna go and what are those talks gonna

2139
01:39:51,450 --> 01:39:48,969
be about

2140
01:39:54,030 --> 01:39:51,460
let's see I will be going to the next

2141
01:39:57,720 --> 01:39:54,040
meeting that SCU holds I think that's

2142
01:40:01,140 --> 01:39:57,730
going to be in mid June of 2020 I'm

2143
01:40:04,050 --> 01:40:01,150
going to be at the there's a quantum

2144
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:04,060
foundations meeting in BEC WA Sweden

2145
01:40:09,660 --> 01:40:08,530
which is in typically early June or

2146
01:40:11,130 --> 01:40:09,670
actually I think it'll be right after

2147
01:40:13,110 --> 01:40:11,140
the SCO meeting so I'll probably

2148
01:40:16,110 --> 01:40:13,120
actually go from Alabama to Sweden so

2149
01:40:18,060 --> 01:40:16,120
I'll be talking there and and I'm also

2150
01:40:20,189 --> 01:40:18,070
planning going to the MaxEnt meeting I

2151
01:40:24,240 --> 01:40:20,199
go to those almost every year though

2152
01:40:28,140 --> 01:40:24,250
that one will be in Austria in July of

2153
01:40:32,370 --> 01:40:28,150
next year thank you so much for your

2154
01:40:35,370 --> 01:40:32,380
time tonight Kevin thank you so much I

2155
01:40:37,110 --> 01:40:35,380
really enjoyed myself alright and we are

2156
01:40:39,990 --> 01:40:37,120
out of here it is late in the East so

2157
01:40:42,540 --> 01:40:40,000
it's past my bedtime got to go we'll be

2158
01:40:44,700 --> 01:40:42,550
back a Tuesday night with Derek Gilbert